Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 509350)

But let's say you and I lived in WV, in an economic dead zone. Couldn't you make the same argument to me about Donald Trump? "You have a duty to vote for him because he's the only choice that might help us."

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 509358)

You drooling imbecile, you still don't get that he's not going to help them??

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 509357)

What a crock of shit. What is Trump going to do for WVa?

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 509356)

I have no idea myself; I don't know much about NK. But it's possible for people to hate many others, so just because they have good reason to hate their government doesn't mean we should assume they have some latent fondness for us. One's enemy's enemy is not, contrary to Confucius, always one's friend. But I have trouble believing a bunch of people from across an ocean can ever be seen as "liberators".

Any sensible person with a basic knowledge of the Middle East knew we were wading into a swamp with the invasion, all you need to do is mutter "Sykes Picot" and you know you've got a problem. And the more you know the worse it seems. Even in retrospect, I can't figure out what the mission was, something we should have known going in.

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 509361)

But amazingly, where there was a chance perhaps it wouldn't be a total mess

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 509361)

I don't think we'd be seen positively by most of NK. I'm just guessing it might be better than Iraq.

Agreed on everything noted in your second paragraph. But amazingly, where there was a chance perhaps it wouldn't be a total mess, Bremmer ensured a complete meltdown. It is mind boggling. Hussein warned in advance that the Baathists would fight to the death if faced with loss of power. So what'd we do? Throw them all out of power, and purge them from the military, eliminating all possibility of a deal. Great job, Bremmy.

And didn't Bush then give Bremmer the Medal of Freedom? Seriously, Idiocracy.

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 509360)

Facepalm.

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 509347)

You do realize I was simply ridiculing what Damore wrote, right? If you missed that, might want to adjust the meds a bit again.

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 509349)

Why do you say this? Has someone with a lot of knowledge of North Korea indicated they think this?

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 509350)

Credit to you for having the balls to say it. I can respect that.

But let's say you and I lived in WV, in an economic dead zone. Couldn't you make the same argument to me about Donald Trump? "You have a duty to vote for him because he's the only choice that might help us."

The "obligation" you note changes based on location, background, socioeconomic status, etc. It's relative, based on a laddering of priorities that changes as one moves around the country.

An "obligation" so relative (unless you believe a buffoon like Trump an existential threat to democracy, which is a hysterical view) isn't really an obligation. It's a person with one set of priorities telling someone else who might have a different set what to do.

Trump hasn't changed my life much, and nor would've Hillary. I didn't owe the Rust Belt Forgotten a duty to vote for Trump, and I didn't owe any of my neighbors a duty to vote for Hillary.

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 509353)

Pre-election, I was accosted by Right leaners about how Trump was the only acceptable choice because of the Supreme Court. There are a lot of persuasive arguments there. Garland seemed fine to me, but the possibility of additional appointments creating a long term left-leaning court was disturbing. (I'm of the belief we're already brutally overlawyered, over-regulated, and it's bad both culturally and economically.)

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 509356)

Even in retrospect, I can't figure out what the mission was, something we should have known going in.

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 509369)

In retrospect, the mission was to persuade regimes like North Korea's that they needed nuclear weapons to deter us from removing them by force, like we did with Iraq, and later Libya.

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 509364)

Well, what will he do for them? Bring back coal? (sound of riotous laughter) Help with the opioid crisis? (Oh, dear God, crack me up!) Reduce taxes on working people?

Ain't nothing he's going to do for them. Nothing at all.

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 509371)

I got it. You're preaching to the choir there.

But the facepalm is because we were talking about what a coal miner in WV assumed prior to election. Those poor bastards either believed Trump, or assumed that any faint glimmer of hope was better than no hope at all.