Law suits and the President
 

We controlled him? We could have controlled him forever? On what planet? We had cornered ourselves into a box. There were two no fly zones that were created, that eventually would lead to a pilot being shot down ending up under Saddams control. In addition, those fly zones, and the enforcement had tied up a good deal of our forces in Saudi Arabia with no foreseeable timetable for them to get out. We looked totally weak because we had let Saddam Hussein kick out the inspectors (it was only W's saber rattling that got them back in). Saddam Hussein had completely violated the peace treaty that ended the gulf war and it didn't look like he was going to get overthrown any time soon. In addition, his people were in total misery, caused by the sanctions and his brutal regime. We couldn't lift the sanctions while he was flouting the treaty. We had a guy who had control of a lot of money and a large country who had it in for us and would not think twice about taking out New York or Chicago. Without his help, Al Queda did quite a bit of damage so if the two of them ever hooked up - giving Al Queda to the entire access of the Iraqi state - lord know what they could have accomplished. We had the choice of giving up and not enforcing the treaty or going in and taking him out. The only practical option was taking him out. I am just glad we had a President who had the Cajones to make the call. I believe in the problem solver, not the person that says - lets just let things alone and hopefully they will fix themselves. That is what led to WWII. Iraq was not going to fix itself. I have a lot of problems with the Bush administration, but the fact that they made a decision and stuck by it through thick and think eclipses everything else they do. He didn't let the international community or the liberals take his eye off the ball. Once we started the military buildup Saddam Hussein was milking the international community trying to delay things so we would get into Ramadan and then the summer months. Leaving our entire army over there to stew. He stayed focused and didn't let the prime military situation get screwed up over delays for "consultations" and any other such BS that was not going to lead to anything. Once you give a deadline you stick by it. He did what needed to be done no matter what the consequences. I'll take that any day over a politician who makes foreign policy decisions based on the latest polling. I don't care if Iraq turns into a quagmire for the next forty years. We had to take the risk and thank God we had W. there to make the right call.

Law suits and the President
 

Amen. Best.Post.Ever.

Law suits and the President
 

Listen, you aren't giving me money to do research, so the first google quote I find gets posted. I said I wasn't going to waste my time looking for other supporting quotes, but if this means you're going to be an ostrich and pretend they don't exist, feel free.

Blix wanted to further neuter the UN Security Counsel by allowing "more time" to a sanctioned tyrant who ignored the world for 10 years. And this hardly changes the fact that he thought Saddam was hiding weapons.

You mean Ritter? The guy who received money from Saddam's regime.

Law suits and the President
 

Everyone also likes to conveniently forget that Bush was only implementing the existing law of the land - enacted during the Clinton Administration:

Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 (PL 105-338)

October 31, 1998

An Act

To establish a program to support a transition to democracy in Iraq.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `Iraq Liberation Act of 1998'.

SEC. 2. FINDINGS.

The Congress makes the following findings:

(1) On September 22, 1980, Iraq invaded Iran, starting an 8 year war in which Iraq employed chemical weapons against Iranian troops and ballistic missiles against Iranian cities.

(2) In February 1988, Iraq forcibly relocated Kurdish civilians from their home villages in the Anfal campaign, killing an estimated 50,000 to 180,000 Kurds.

(3) On March 16, 1988, Iraq used chemical weapons against Iraqi Kurdish civilian opponents in the town of Halabja, killing an estimated 5,000 Kurds and causing numerous birth defects that affect the town today.

(4) On August 2, 1990, Iraq invaded and began a 7 month occupation of Kuwait, killing and committing numerous abuses against Kuwaiti civilians, and setting Kuwait's oil wells ablaze upon retreat.

(5) Hostilities in Operation Desert Storm ended on February 28, 1991, and Iraq subsequently accepted the ceasefire conditions specified in United Nations Security Council Resolution 687 (April 3, 1991) requiring Iraq, among other things, to disclose fully and permit the dismantlement of its weapons of mass destruction programs and submit to long-term monitoring and verification of such dismantlement.

(6) In April 1993, Iraq orchestrated a failed plot to assassinate former President George Bush during his April 14-16, 1993, visit to Kuwait.

(7) In October 1994, Iraq moved 80,000 troops to areas near the border with Kuwait, posing an imminent threat of a renewed invasion of or attack against Kuwait.

(8) On August 31, 1996, Iraq suppressed many of its opponents by helping one Kurdish faction capture Irbil, the seat of the Kurdish regional government.

(9) Since March 1996, Iraq has systematically sought to deny weapons inspectors from the United Nations Special Commission on Iraq (UNSCOM) access to key facilities and documents, has on several occasions endangered the safe operation of UNSCOM helicopters transporting UNSCOM personnel in Iraq, and has persisted in a pattern of deception and concealment regarding the history of its weapons of mass destruction programs.

(10) On August 5, 1998, Iraq ceased all cooperation with UNSCOM, and subsequently threatened to end long-term monitoring activities by the International Atomic Energy Agency and UNSCOM.

(11) On August 14, 1998, President Clinton signed Public Law 105-235, which declared that `the Government of Iraq is in material and unacceptable breach of its international obligations' and urged the President `to take appropriate action, in accordance with the Constitution and relevant laws of the United States, to bring Iraq into compliance with its international obligations.'.

(12) On May 1, 1998, President Clinton signed Public Law 105-174, which made $5,000,000 available for assistance to the Iraqi democratic opposition for such activities as organization, training, communication and dissemination of information, developing and implementing agreements among opposition groups, compiling information to support the indictment of Iraqi officials for war crimes, and for related purposes.

SEC. 3. SENSE OF THE CONGRESS REGARDING UNITED STATES POLICY TOWARD IRAQ.

It should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime.

SEC. 4. ASSISTANCE TO SUPPORT A TRANSITION TO DEMOCRACY IN IRAQ.

(a) AUTHORITY TO PROVIDE ASSISTANCE- The President may provide to the Iraqi democratic opposition organizations designated in accordance with section 5 the following assistance:

(1) BROADCASTING ASSISTANCE

(A) Grant assistance to such organizations for radio and television broadcasting by such organizations to Iraq.

(B) There is authorized to be appropriated to the United States Information Agency $2,000,000 for fiscal year 1999 to carry out this paragraph.

(2) MILITARY ASSISTANCE

(A) The President is authorized to direct the drawdown of defense articles from the stocks of the Department of Defense, defense services of the Department of Defense, and military education and training for such organizations.

(B) The aggregate value (as defined in section 644(m) of the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961) of assistance provided under this paragraph may not exceed $97,000,000.

(b) HUMANITARIAN ASSISTANCE- The Congress urges the President to use existing authorities under the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961 to provide humanitarian assistance to individuals living in areas of Iraq controlled by organizations designated in accordance with section 5, with emphasis on addressing the needs of individuals who have fled to such areas from areas under the control of the Saddam Hussein regime.

(c) RESTRICTION ON ASSISTANCE- No assistance under this section shall be provided to any group within an organization designated in accordance with section 5 which group is, at the time the assistance is to be provided, engaged in military cooperation with the Saddam Hussein regime.

(d) NOTIFICATION REQUIREMENT- The President shall notify the congressional committees specified in section 634A of the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961 at least 15 days in advance of each obligation of assistance under this section in accordance with the procedures applicable to reprogramming notifications under section 634A.

(e) REIMBURSEMENT RELATING TO MILITARY ASSISTANCE-

(1) IN GENERAL- Defense articles, defense services, and military education and training provided under subsection (a)(2) shall be made available without reimbursement to the Department of Defense except to the extent that funds are appropriated pursuant to paragraph (2).

(2) AUTHORIZATION OF APPROPRIATIONS- There are authorized to be appropriated to the President for each of the fiscal years 1998 and 1999 such sums as may be necessary to reimburse the applicable appropriation, fund, or account for the value (as defined in section 644(m) of the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961) of defense articles, defense services, or military education and training provided under subsection (a)(2).

(f) AVAILABILITY OF FUNDS

(1) Amounts authorized to be appropriated under this section are authorized to remain available until expended.

(2) Amounts authorized to be appropriated under this section are in addition to amounts otherwise available for the purposes described in this section.

(g) AUTHORITY TO PROVIDE ASSISTANCE- Activities under this section (including activities of the nature described in subsection (b)) may be undertaken notwithstanding any other provision of law.

SEC. 5. DESIGNATION OF IRAQI DEMOCRATIC OPPOSITION ORGANIZATION.

(a) INITIAL DESIGNATION- Not later than 90 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the President shall designate one or more Iraqi democratic opposition organizations that the President determines satisfy the criteria set forth in subsection (c) as eligible to receive assistance under section 4.

(b) DESIGNATION OF ADDITIONAL ORGANIZATIONS- At any time subsequent to the initial designation pursuant to subsection (a), the President may designate one or more additional Iraqi democratic opposition organizations that the President determines satisfy the criteria set forth in subsection (c) as eligible to receive assistance under section 4.

(c) CRITERIA FOR DESIGNATION- In designating an organization pursuant to this section, the President shall consider only organizations that--

(1) include a broad spectrum of Iraqi individuals, groups, or both, opposed to the Saddam Hussein regime; and

(2) are committed to democratic values, to respect for human rights, to peaceful relations with Iraq's neighbors, to maintaining Iraq's territorial integrity, and to fostering cooperation among democratic opponents of the Saddam Hussein regime.

(d) NOTIFICATION REQUIREMENT- At least 15 days in advance of designating an Iraqi democratic opposition organization pursuant to this section, the President shall notify the congressional committees specified in section 634A of the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961 of his proposed designation in accordance with the procedures applicable to reprogramming notifications under section 634A.

SEC. 6. WAR CRIMES TRIBUNAL FOR IRAQ.

Consistent with section 301 of the Foreign Relations Authorization Act, Fiscal Years 1992 and 1993 (Public Law 102-138), House Concurrent Resolution 137, 105th Congress (approved by the House of Representatives on November 13, 1997), and Senate Concurrent Resolution 78, 105th Congress (approved by the Senate on March 13, 1998), the Congress urges the President to call upon the United Nations to establish an international criminal tribunal for the purpose of indicting, prosecuting, and imprisoning Saddam Hussein and other Iraqi officials who are responsible for crimes against humanity, genocide, and other criminal violations of international law.

SEC. 7. ASSISTANCE FOR IRAQ UPON REPLACEMENT OF SADDAM HUSSEIN REGIME.

It is the sense of the Congress that once the Saddam Hussein regime is removed from power in Iraq, the United States should support Iraq's transition to democracy by providing immediate and substantial humanitarian assistance to the Iraqi people, by providing democracy transition assistance to Iraqi parties and movements with democratic goals, and by convening Iraq's foreign creditors to develop a multilateral response to Iraq's foreign debt incurred by Saddam Hussein's regime.

SEC. 8. RULE OF CONSTRUCTION.

Nothing in this Act shall be construed to authorize or otherwise speak to the use of United States Armed Forces (except as provided in section 4(a)(2)) in carrying out this Act.

Law suits and the President
 

I appreciate the compliment. Although I think my post was rather rambling and disorganized compared to Slaves slam dunk up above. That congressional act rather supports my point more than I did.

Law suits and the President
 

Slave is on a roll. Best.SlavePost.Ever.

Putting aside everything that happened since and the WMDs, since 93 I have been of the the opinion that:

(6) In April 1993, Iraq orchestrated a failed plot to assassinate former President George Bush during his April 14-16, 1993, visit to Kuwait.

was more than enough to justify taking out Hussein. And I never liked Bush1.0 much and in fact did not vote for him in 92, but still I think one State attempting to take out the leader or former leader of another is a good rationale to go to war to neutralize the first State. Of course, if the liberals' friends and allies in the murderous terrorist group the PLO were to take out a future Madame President Hillary, my opinion could change.

Confidential Post to my brothers in arms in Iraq
 

HAPPY INDEPENDENT SOVEREIGNTY DAY!!!!

As President and Commander in Chief Bush and Iraqi Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari said last week:

The year since Iraq assumed sovereignty on June 28, 2004, has been marked by some extraordinary achievements in the face of tremendous challenge......the Iraqi people have met their strategic objectives, and the terrorists have failed to stop them......the goal is clear: a democratic and peaceful Iraq that represents all Iraqis......and the free world (i.e. America) is standing with them.....now is not the time for Iraqis or Americans to fall back on their commitment.......Iraqis are making steady and substantial progress and disproving naysayers (like the Lawtalkers liberals) every day.

People said Saddam would not fall, and he did......They said the elections would not happen, and they did......They said the constitution will not be written, but it will.

Let Freedom Reign! Amen, god bless!

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/image...9/8206_512.jpg

Law suits and the President
 

You can't do this to me... its like a smorgasbord. Where to start?

1. We went to war to avert a pilot being shot down?

2. We were cornered? WE, not Iraq, were ringed by enemies?

3. We looked weak? The world paid even a smidge of attention to what a tin pot dictator like Hussein did prior to our war on terrorist activities in which Iraq has been proven time and time again to have not been involved?

4. We went to war to free his people from misery? Funny, I didn't hear that until after the war. Or, excuse me... after the WMD search came up with nada.

5. Saddam was going to suddenly shift his policy of killing fundamentalists and allow AQ to use Iraq for staging exercises? So a despot would put his tenuous control at risk to invite fundamentalists who'd sought his overthrow into his country? And he'd do it so AQ could plan to attack the United States? What would this gain him? How would this be at all consistent with his previous 2 decade policy of self preservation. To believe your horseshit theory, you'd have to believe Hussein was suicidal, which he was not.

Before you claim Hussein was suicidal, and offer as proof the fact that he did not leave his country in advance of a US invasion, understand that even if he left, he was dead. He knew that wherever he went, he'd eventually face a fate like Milosevic's. So his remaining in country is proof of neither madness nor suicidal ideation - he simply had nowhere to run.

6. AQ is tied to the Saudis, monetarily, spiritually and physically. If we had no choice but to take out Iraq, a country with no ties to AQ other than the after the fact bin Laden follower Zarqawi, then why weren't we also compelled to take out the Saudis.

We took out the neighbor of our greatest enemy because he was the easy target. Iraq got the bullet because it was the only weak state we had a pretext to invade. We half assed our response. The Saudis are still, and always will be, our biggest problem. Thank God Bush had courage? Are you fucking insane? Attacking Iraq was ballsy, but courageous would have been facing down the Saudis. Sure, I understand that we couldn't take over Saudi Arabia. But the fact that you can't attack your real enemy doesn't mean you should waste your resources attacking his neighbor.

Yeh, I understand that "now the war is over there," and thats a good thing. But its a half step. Its treating the disease, but no cure.

Law suits and the President
 

Did you bother reading that act all the way to the end?



In case you've forgotten what 4(a)(2) says:



If a GA wrote a memo saying that this act authorized the invasion of Iraq, the commitment of several hundred thousand troops, and the spending of several hundred billion dollars, I would fire him and alert the carrier.



Of course, if a GA wrote that memo to Bush, Bush would promote him and ask him to write another memo on what torture means and why the President can order it.

Law suits and the President
 

It's not treating the disease, it's making it worse. We cannot kill enough "foreign fighters" to make up for the massive recruiting benefit the invasion bestowed upon them.

Surrender Dorothy!
 

Extending that rationale in light of Islam's goal of either conversion or death to the infidels we may as well send bin laden the keys to the White House and Capital now.

Law suits and the President
 

Why are you citing a known perjurer for support?

Law suits and the President
 

Read closer. That's should be called the Suck Chalabi's Dick While He Blows Smoke Up Your Ass Act.

Law suits and the President
 

I don't know if they should have been indicted or not. I do know that they all lied to Congress and to the American people repeatedly about many things involving Vietnam and the CIA's active participation in both expanding the conflict and our role in it.

The fact of the matter is that Government in general frequently lied to the American people, and the Executive Branch routinely lied to Congress.

Watergate was the first big scandal to blow the lid off of everything and that was primarily because government officials were committing crimes on domestic soil for personal gain rather than as a policy move. The shit hit the fan in the biggest way and politics has been seen in a more suspicious and cynical light ever since.

I don't think we can or should goi back to the more innocent time before Watergate when the President and the CIA were free to topple governments, spy on us, and generally do whatever the fuck they wanted and lie about it.

Arguing about whether or not Kennedy should have been indicted or impeached over the Bay of Pigs or Johnson should have been indicted over the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution is kind of like arguing over whether or not we should give the land back to the indians.

We've sort of gone past that point. But because we did it in the past doesn't mean we should tolerate it now or in the future.

Law suits and the President
 

He should be indicted for the (not so) Great Society. A treasonous effort to convert us to communism.

But isn't that the same thing as having Congress pass apology resolutions? And weren't the libs up in arms about that last week?