Re: We are all Slave now.
 

I think of them as more historical accidents.

We undoubtedly redefine markets continually, but I'd argue the redefinition has as much to do with variables like technology and climate as with politics.

Re: We are all Slave now.
 

Sure. I guess my point is that when free markets win, it is because the political will isn't there.

Re: We are all Slave now.
 

I'm with GGG on this. Putin's strategy, abetted by Trump and Farage, is to stop globalization and retain a regional sphere of influence. I believe Putin realizes that a decade or so more of liberal globalization will make it impossible for dictators to retain meaningful control of their states.

Putin is a dinosaur. He does not want to be challenged by global economic actors within his perceived sphere of control. His best and only way of walling off the world is by creating conflicts between regions. The tried and true way of doing this is to start a trade war/cold war. This leads to nationalism and regionalism, and impedes trade and cooperation.

But I don't think it's going to work for Putin this time around. The internet has connected us in a way that frustrates this sort of mercantilism. Too many powerful multinational actors, too many connections... I think the horse left the barn here a long time ago, and liberal, global trade will overcome all of Putin's, Trump's, and Farage's efforts to stanch it.

(What's of far more concern to me is the new Chinese policy of "social credit." If you've not read of this, do so. It's the most insidious form of oppression and control I've ever seen... straight out of Fahrenheit 451 or Brave New World. While we in the west and Putin try to figure out how to control our populations with borders, these sick and evil fucks in China have learned how to control their people with a perverse form of currency.)

Re: We are all Slave now.
 

With his tariffs, Trump has made a political choice which defies the will of the global markets.

The global markets will win.

I think it was Bill Clinton who said the real president is something called the bond market.

Politics is important, no doubt. And it can control certain limited market forces. But it cannot contain global trade.

Re: We are all Slave now.
 

Across the western world, you see conservative political parties turning away from support for free markets, and turning towards controls on free movement and trade. I'm not sure why you are focused on Putin -- he may try to abet and exploit this shift, but it's not about him. Actually, I would suggest that conservative support for free markets in the second half of the last century came out of the marriage of corporate interests and opposition to Communism, and once the Soviet Union fell apart and ceased to be a major threat, corporate interests alone were not enough to keep conservative parties oriented to free trade. Trump recognized the political potential in opposing free trade, but it's not just him -- it's also Brexit, and similar movements in other developed countries.

Free trade may have a lot of benefits for a lot of people, but those benefits are pretty diffused and can be hard to see. The whole Brexit episode should demonstrate that the stupidity of closing borders may not be an obstacle.

Re: We are all Slave now.
 

Last week was tough for me. The family beach house (my wife's side) had a couple very empowered feeling Trumpsters in it.

One of them was talking about how great his recent stint of grand jury duty was because he realized the small Northern city he lives in effectively has cameras everyone, so almost every crime that came before them had tape. My wife brought up the social credit policy and monitoring and he thought it was a truly wonderful thing, and that every "ghetto" (apparently Trumpsters use the word ghetto again, truly bringing back the 60s) should be so monitored.

Of course, he didn't think it was needed in his suburb.

Re: ... so glad Godwin suspended his law....
 

I have to say, if the monitoring really develops as he'd like it to, the word "ghetto" may well get right back to the ole' Warsaw ghetto use....

Re: ... so glad Godwin suspended his law....
 

Really, like it's used in Sweden, today?

Re: We are all Slave now.
 

do you have any reason to distinguish trump's and trumpsters' hate for immigrants from Brexit, or Sweden's, or Italy's or Germany's? Not arguing, trying not to see a rising tide in a lot of places against outsiders.

Re: We are all Slave now.
 

American history is much more replete with racism where European history leans toward the national and religious bigotry ... but the two are clearly learning from each other and comparing notes...

Re: We are all Slave now.
 

I guess I see a lot of commonality across the countries -- the rising tide you describe. I'm sure there are a lot of differences between the countries, but in each place politicians on the right can appeal to and promote an ethnic/racial sense of community that is hostile to cosmopolitanism and citizenship based on the law. I think a lot of it has to do with the recession ten years ago. Fear of terrorism seems much stronger in the US than in Europe. And there are big differences in where immigrants are coming from. In Britain, it's much more about legal immigration from elsewhere in the EU.

Re: We are all Slave now.
 

eta: Apropos of Hank's question, maybe Canada is really different.

Re: We are all Slave now.
 

This is really not true. Although I guess saying "my european country stocked only with white people is great and other people, from say Africa, aren't welcome, regardless of race," is simply a national preference?

Re: We are all Slave now.
 

not an answer, but thanks for not calling me a troll? Earlier you were saying things are becoming global, but now these things aren't? Your source for Europe's fear of terrorism is? In UK and DE it is about countries letting immigrants into the EU, have you read about what Germany is doing? Italy is the entry point- but at least for the near term, no more.

Re: We are all Slave now.
 

Do you think the history of race slavery makes a difference in the US?

Or that the history of pograms and the holocaust makes a difference in Europe?

In the UK, what do you think about the anti-Polish sentiment there as compared to, say, African immigration or Indian immigration?