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sgtclub 09-27-2004 04:20 PM

Bill Kristol must read my rants
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
Suddenly the UN carries the imprimatur of legitimacy? Oh, how the neo-cons have fallen!

More seriously, I don't really get your point. The choice of Allawi came out of the Iraqi governing council, to the apparent surprise of everyone outside of it. The US' agreeing to go along with it, in light of the fact that we've got 100k soldiers in country and the keys to the joint, strikes me as important. If we weren't very comfortable with Allawi, I think we'd have said so.

The UN's acquescence came in the context where not only were they not on the field, they're hardly even on the sidelines. I'm not sure they were even in the stadium. Their agreement was nice and all, but let's not pretend that they had either significant involvement in, or impact on, the outcome.
No, but it does refute the puppet argument. Please explain why you think he is a US puppet, given that he was chosen by Iraqis among choices blessed by the UN. Or do you mean that anyone who was in charge in Iraq is a US puppet because they exist at our leisure?

taxwonk 09-27-2004 04:21 PM

Bill Kristol must read my rants
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
I can't imagine anyone disagreeing with the truth of the above. The problem is you wrote it to compliment Kerry. I really don't see how your view could be any more different than the views of most Bush supporters here, and the majority of Americans. I mean seriously Club, you'd be hard pressed to find many people who'd say Kerry takes clear stands and defends his position.
I'm not Club. And I didn't write it to compliment Kerry. I wrote it to insult Dim Son. The plain truth is that both candidates are mediocre. I'm just backing the guy I think is less dangerous and whom I know is less stupid.

sgtclub 09-27-2004 04:21 PM

Bill Kristol must read my rants
 
Quote:

Originally posted by taxwonk
However, he at least had, until recently, the power to control people's actions in a general sense. He no longer has that power, so he no longer has any claim to particular attention.

Since you asked.
Did he? You suffer from the same dream that Clinton did.

Hank Chinaski 09-27-2004 04:23 PM

Bill Kristol must read my rants
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
What do I have to do with this?
meant wonk

sebastian_dangerfield 09-27-2004 04:24 PM

Bill Kristol must read my rants
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
No, but it does refute the puppet argument. Please explain why you think he is a US puppet, given that he was chosen by Iraqis among choices blessed by the UN. Or do you mean that anyone who was in charge in Iraq is a US puppet because they exist at our leisure?
Way to rebut yourself.

You - 1
You - 0

taxwonk 09-27-2004 04:25 PM

Bill Kristol must read my rants
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Your theory is based on projections, which are based on statistics, which are tabulated by people who are not immune to error and are sometimes even biased. Economic projections are like epidemiological models - their predictive value is not the sort of thing you'd ever take to the bank.

According to statistics, I'm dead already of lung disease, kidney cancer, cirrhosis and heart issue. I'm not saying predictions don't have value - I'm just saying that screaming chicken little based on a pile of projected numbers is foolish. I ain't handing free money back because Robert Rubin's great big juicy brain says I should. If I'm wrong and reckless, whatever... won't be the first time and won't be the last.
My theory is based on the same principle that keeps me from maxing out all my credit cards at once on the theory that it's no problem because I'll be making much more money when it comestime to pay the interest and pay off the balances.

But you just keep on spending Sebby. After all, Bush is ramming bankruptcy reform legislation through Congress, too.

Did you just call me Coltrane? 09-27-2004 04:27 PM

Bill Kristol must read my rants
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
As you typed these words, your pulse increased. You exhaled more Carbon dioxide. You increased pollution.

So yes, merely saying pollution increased is meaningless unless you show what you mean. Are you speaking of the arsenic levels? Do you have any specifics, or are you flying on hyperbole here?
Hey man, it's your kid. I'm childness. But if you don't vote for Kerry, your kid(s) will die immediately.

Gattigap 09-27-2004 04:30 PM

Bill Kristol must read my rants
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
No, but it does refute the puppet argument. Please explain why you think he is a US puppet, given that he was chosen by Iraqis among choices blessed by the UN. Or do you mean that anyone who was in charge in Iraq is a US puppet because they exist at our leisure?
Making the initial selection is indicative, but not determinative.

As for later events, there's been a good bit of past discussion on this board about Allawi's lack of independence, real and/or perceived.

sebastian_dangerfield 09-27-2004 04:33 PM

Bill Kristol must read my rants
 
Quote:

Originally posted by taxwonk
My theory is based on the same principle that keeps me from maxing out all my credit cards at once on the theory that it's no problem because I'll be making much more money when it comestime to pay the interest and pay off the balances.

But you just keep on spending Sebby. After all, Bush is ramming bankruptcy reform legislation through Congress, too.
That bankruptcy bill is being gutted. Its been fucked with so much it'll be a shell of what it was the first time around. And the thrust of the bill - to preclude people from avoiding credit card debt - doesn't affect me. I never use the plastic. Learned my lesson many long years ago.

No car payments. Just the mortgage and insurance. I could lose this gig tomorrow and live just fine for a long time. In fact, I ponder just walking a lot, but I'd have to give up a lot of entertainment spending.

Tyrone Slothrop 09-27-2004 04:36 PM

Bill Kristol must read my rants
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
You want to know why suburbs exist? Because the Democrats have completely fucked up almost every one of America's major cities. Look around you in Chicago. Who's the boogeyman in your wasteland? Daley? Mell? Blagoyevich? Madigan?
The development of the car had nothing to do with it, either.

Tyrone Slothrop 09-27-2004 04:41 PM

Bill Kristol must read my rants
 
Quote:

Originally posted by taxwonk
I'm not Club. And I didn't write it to compliment Kerry. I wrote it to insult Dim Son. The plain truth is that both candidates are mediocre. I'm just backing the guy I think is less dangerous and whom I know is less stupid.
Bush wouldn't be nearly as dangerous with a Democratic Congress.

Replaced_Texan 09-27-2004 04:43 PM

Might as well use this place for networking
 
Does anyone have any contacts at the ACLU? I'm looking on behalf of an arts organization that's having a show on free speech/art next year, and they're looking for a sponsor. They asked me to ask under the theory that I'm a liberal lawyer, so hey, I should know all other liberal lawyers on the planet. I actually do feel kind of bad that I don't know anyone at the ACLU.

Also, speaking of environmental stuff, same organization is doing a show on Brownfields that will probably turn into a reclamation project in Houston, so if you know anyone who would be interested in donating to/sponsoring/seeing that, I'd love their information also.

Feel free to PM me for more info if you need it before passing on your contacts.

Shape Shifter 09-27-2004 04:47 PM

Bill Kristol must read my rants
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Your theory is based on projections, which are based on statistics, which are tabulated by people who are not immune to error and are sometimes even biased. Economic projections are like epidemiological models - their predictive value is not the sort of thing you'd ever take to the bank.

According to statistics, I'm dead already of lung disease, kidney cancer, cirrhosis and heart issue. I'm not saying predictions don't have value - I'm just saying that screaming chicken little based on a pile of projected numbers is foolish. I ain't handing free money back because Robert Rubin's great big juicy brain says I should. If I'm wrong and reckless, whatever... won't be the first time and won't be the last.
Don't give me this shit. Statistics are not perfect, but only a fool disregards them completely. Have you picked Arizona in any of your office pools so far this season? Why or why not?

Hank Chinaski 09-27-2004 04:50 PM

Bill Kristol must read my rants
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Bush wouldn't be nearly as dangerous with a Democratic Congress.
2. All the bad flows from complete control.

sebastian_dangerfield 09-27-2004 04:55 PM

Bill Kristol must read my rants
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
Don't give me this shit. Statistics are not perfect, but only a fool disregards them completely. Have you picked Arizona in any of your office pools so far this season? Why or why not?
Have you ever toyed with something called "Relative Risk" in your work? Its an amazingly misleading representation of data which, for reasons I still don't get, remains in use in the medical community. Doctors I know don't even like it, but it remains in use because, well, everyone's just grown accustomed to having it around, regardless of its useless prognostic capabilities.

Football handicapping is a bit different. The data has very few variables compared to health statistics of economic factors.

Shape Shifter 09-27-2004 04:55 PM

Bill Kristol must read my rants
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
No, but it does refute the puppet argument. Please explain why you think he is a US puppet, given that he was chosen by Iraqis among choices blessed by the UN. Or do you mean that anyone who was in charge in Iraq is a US puppet because they exist at our leisure?
Are you forgetting that the puppet comment was made about Allawi's appearance on behalf of the admin?

Hank Chinaski 09-27-2004 04:59 PM

Bill Kristol must read my rants
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
Are you forgetting that the puppet comment was made about Allawi's appearance on behalf of the admin?
Do you realize this is our whole point, and is why Kerry is so vile for being associated with the statement?

Gattigap 09-27-2004 05:09 PM

Bill Kristol must read my rants
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Do you realize this is our whole point, and is why Kerry is so vile for being associated with the statement?
http://www.garynuke.homestead.com/fi...ow_ccw_red.gif

taxwonk 09-27-2004 05:12 PM

Bill Kristol must read my rants
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Do you realize this is our whole point, and is why Kerry is so vile for being associated with the statement?
Your whole point is that Kerry is vile for pointing out that Allawi was allowing himself to be used to promote George Bush's electoral agenda, and yet you claim he isn't a puppet?

Say_hello_for_me 09-27-2004 05:16 PM

Bill Kristol must read my rants
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
The development of the car had nothing to do with it, either.
You know how the car relates to this? It allowed people to move farther away from *Democrats and still make it into work by 9:00 AM each day. You can fill in the "*" 50 different ways (really, just 1 big one), and its always going to translate back to a Democratic constituency.

You want to see the end of suburbs (and the end of your "car" theory or any other secondary theory)? Implement my section 8 dispersion onto Sebby, Not_Me and Clubby and tell them they couldn't run anywhere in the country where section 8 won't exist, if it exists anywhere at all.

Well, maybe do that and give it 20 years.

Or just raise gas taxes by $5.00 per gallon. That would work too.

Hello

SlaveNoMore 09-27-2004 05:23 PM

Bill Kristol must read my rants
 
Quote:

taxwonk
Your whole point is that Kerry is vile for pointing out that Allawi was allowing himself to be used to promote George Bush's electoral agenda, and yet you claim he isn't a puppet?
Allawi came to Congress to thank the US for liberating the people of Iraq and to describe to the joint houses of Congress the status on the ground. He spoke of the victories and the long road ahead. Contrary to some, he did not lie about the conditions on the ground and make up some stories of a "kite-flying paradise" like FatMoore. He also asked the US to stand firm in its resolve and mission.

Rather than perform his Senatorial duties (i.e. show up), Kerry chose instead to mock Allawi from afar. Kerry then sent out his "puppet" Joe Lockhart to further condemn the man.

Since Kerry's explicit agenda is to now turn-tail and run, and to get UN approval for any future defensive actions, I guess one could read Allawi's comments as "promoting Bush's agenda".

Tell me, why wasn't Allawi merely promoting the IRAQI agenda?

Hank Chinaski 09-27-2004 05:24 PM

Bill Kristol must read my rants
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
http://www.garynuke.homestead.com/fi...ow_ccw_red.gif
In engineering school the people with better graphs typically had lesser content. No offense.

sgtclub 09-27-2004 05:24 PM

Bill Kristol must read my rants
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Way to rebut yourself.

You - 1
You - 0
Way to recognize an honest question from a flame.

Me - 1
You - 0

Shape Shifter 09-27-2004 05:32 PM

Bill Kristol must read my rants
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Tell me, why wasn't Allawi merely promoting the IRAQI agenda?
Because the admin insisted that he stick to the talking points.

Hank Chinaski 09-27-2004 05:34 PM

Bill Kristol must read my rants
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
Because the admin insisted that he stick to the talking points.
http://www.garynuke.homestead.com/fi...ow_ccw_red.gif

Tyrone Slothrop 09-27-2004 05:35 PM

Bill Kristol must read my rants
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Allawi came to Congress to thank the US for liberating the people of Iraq and to describe to the joint houses of Congress the status on the ground. He spoke of the victories and the long road ahead. Contrary to some, he did not lie about the conditions on the ground and make up some stories of a "kite-flying paradise" like FatMoore. He also asked the US to stand firm in its resolve and mission.

Rather than perform his Senatorial duties (i.e. show up), Kerry chose instead to mock Allawi from afar. Kerry then sent out his "puppet" Joe Lockhart to further condemn the man.

Since Kerry's explicit agenda is to now turn-tail and run, and to get UN approval for any future defensive actions, I guess one could read Allawi's comments as "promoting Bush's agenda".
I thought you were just repeating GOP spin for fun, but then I got to this last paragraph, which is just plain ignorant. You guys betray a fear of Kerry and a deep concern about Bush when you insist on attributing to Kerry views he does not hold. On Kerry's "explicit agenda" for Iraq, he gave a speech a week ago at NYU* which prompted Bush to say that Kerry proposes "exactly what we're currently doing." The "UN approval" canard plays well with the black-helicopter crowd, but I would have thought you were above that.

* Fight ignorance: read it

eta: Oh, and spare some of your ire for Donald Rumsfeld why don't you?

Quote:

THE PUREST FORM OF CUTTING AND RUNNING: Controversy exploded when Kerry foreign policy adviser Jamie Rubin advocated withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq even as the insurgency rages:
  • Any implication that that place has to be peaceful and perfect before we can reduce coalition and U.S. forces I think would obviously be unwise because it's never been peaceful and perfect and it isn't likely to be.

Oh, sorry, that wasn't Jamie Rubin, or anyone else from the Kerry camp. It was Donald Rumsfeld on Friday, advocating the purest form of cutting and running there is--backing away under fire.
IRAQ'd

Hank Chinaski 09-27-2004 05:37 PM

Bill Kristol must read my rants
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I thought you were just repeating GOP spin for fun, but then I got to this last paragraph, which is just plain ignorant. You guys betray a fear of Kerry and a deep concern about Bush when you insist on attributing to Kerry views he does not hold. On Kerry's "explicit agenda" for Iraq, he gave a speech a week ago at NYU* which prompted Bush to say that Kerry proposes "exactly what we're currently doing." The "UN approval" canard plays well with the black-helicopter crowd, but I would have thought you were above that.

* Fight ignorance: read it
Kerry have given speeches that say lots of things. You can't point to any one speech to say that he didn't say something else a week earlier.

Gattigap 09-27-2004 05:39 PM

Bill Kristol must read my rants
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
In engineering school the people with better graphs typically had lesser content. No offense.
Ooooooo, low blow.

No fair, Hank. You don't see me observing that in liberal arts colleges, the free-verse afficianados were all stoned slackers, do you?

Gattigap 09-27-2004 05:40 PM

Bill Kristol must read my rants
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
http://www.garynuke.homestead.com/fi...ow_ccw_red.gif
OTOH, you're learning quickly.

SlaveNoMore 09-27-2004 05:42 PM

Bill Kristol must read my rants
 
Quote:

Tyrone Slothrop
On Kerry's "explicit agenda" for Iraq, he gave a speech a week ago at NYU* which prompted Bush to say that Kerry proposes "exactly what we're currently doing." The "UN approval" canard plays well with the black-helicopter crowd, but I would have thought you were above that.

* Fight ignorance: read it
Kerry's positions on Iraq have changed so much in the last month - since the Clinton people have apparently advised him to channel Dean - that I highly doubt the NYU speech is (1) what he even thinks today and (2) what he'll say during the debate.

The UN approval line is a nice mantra and perhaps partially untrue. However, you have to love it that (1) he parrots the words of Kofi Annan (begging the question, is one of these men a puppet?) and (2) he promises to get additional aid from France and Germany - which is immediately rebuffed.

Tyrone Slothrop 09-27-2004 05:50 PM

Bill Kristol must read my rants
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Kerry's positions on Iraq have changed so much in the last month - since the Clinton people have apparently advised him to channel Dean - that I highly doubt the NYU speech is (1) what he even thinks today and (2) what he'll say during the debate.
You guys like to say this, so I refer you back to the article cited here by me and (noted lefty) Less in which the SF Chronicle's Washington bureau chief, Marc Sandalow, actually looked at Kerry's position over time -- instead of the GOP talking points you've been sucking up somewhere -- and reported that's he's been consistent over time. Moderate, so he gets attacked from both sides, and maybe too nuanced to make an effective presidential candidated, but consistent:
  • No argument is more central to the Republican attack on Sen. John Kerry than the assertion that the Democrat has flip-flopped on Iraq.

    * * * * *

    Yet an examination of Kerry's words in more than 200 speeches and statements, comments during candidate forums and answers to reporters' questions does not support the accusation.

    As foreign policy emerged as a dominant issue in the Democratic primaries and later in the general election, Kerry clung to a nuanced, middle-of-the road -- yet largely consistent -- approach to Iraq. Over and over, Kerry enthusiastically supported a confrontation with Saddam Hussein even as he aggressively criticized Bush for the manner in which he did so.

    Kerry repeatedly described Hussein as a dangerous menace who must be disarmed or eliminated, demanded that the U.S. build broad international support for any action in Iraq and insisted that the nation had better plan for the post-war peace.

    There were times when Kerry's emphasis shifted for what appear to be political reasons. In the fall of 2003, for example, when former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean surged to the top of Democratic polls based on an anti-war platform, Kerry's criticism of the president grew stronger. There are many instances in which clumsy phrases and tortuously long explanations make Kerry difficult to follow. And there are periods, such as last week, when the sharpness of Kerry's words restating old positions seem to suggest a change.

    Yet taken as a whole, Kerry has offered the same message ever since talk of attacking Iraq became a national conversation more than two years ago.

Quote:

The UN approval line is a nice mantra and perhaps partially untrue. However, you have to love it that (1) he parrots the words of Kofi Annan (begging the question, is one of these men a puppet?) and (2) he promises to get additional aid from France and Germany - which is immediately rebuffed.
It's completely untrue. I cannot believe that any major Democrat or Republican who thought the country was truly threatened would decline to act because he or she lacked UN approval. The real point is that the UN is a force multiplier, and we are stronger in the long run when we use it well.

Gattigap 09-27-2004 05:56 PM

Thursday
 
Best description I've read of the 2000 Bush/Gore debates (from here) was that "Bush spoke English as if it were his second language and Gore spoke it as if it were your second language. The smirking jerk versus the condescending preppy." This characterization, Kerry absolutely must avoid.

Any thoughts on the upcoming debates? I haven't read too much about the expectations games going on, though I'm sure that they are.

It'll be interesting to see if they can get Kerry a personality injection, and what strategy they'll devise for Bush now that the "Caveman Lawyer" strategy is now inapplicable.

Did you just call me Coltrane? 09-27-2004 06:01 PM

Thursday
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
It'll be interesting to see if they can get Kerry a personality injection, and what strategy they'll devise for Bush now that the "Caveman Lawyer" strategy is now inapplicable.
"He used to be a caveman,
but now he's a lawyer.
Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer!"



"Thank you! Thank you very much, thank you! First of all, let me say how happy I am to be your nominee for the United States Senate! [ applause ] You know.. thank you.. I don't really understand your Congress, or your system of checks and balances.. because, as I said during the campaign - I'm just a caveman! I fell on some ice, and later got thawed out by scientists. But there is one thing I do know - we must do everything in our power to lower the Capital Gains Tax. Thank you!"

Gattigap 09-27-2004 06:07 PM

Communists, Islamists, and ex-Baathists. Oh, my!
 
The good news: There've already been some elections in Iraq!

The bad news: They guys we like are, uh, not doing too well.
  • In the September balloting, the delegate from the Supreme Assembly for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq, Jawad al-Maliki, came in first with 56 votes. This is a Shiite group that Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld lambasted as a tool of Iran during the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq. Another Iraqi even less attractive to Washington, the Secretary General of the Iraqi Communist Party (www.iraqcp.org), Hamid Majid Moussa, came in second with 55 votes. Meanwhile, Rasim al-Awadi, the delegate from the Iraqi National Accord--the group once backed by the CIA and whose leader, Iyad Allawi, who was supported by the Bush administration to become the Iraqi prime minister--came in third with 53 votes. Nasir A`if al-Ani--the delegate from the Iraqi Islamic Party, a Sunni group, sympathetic to the Ba’athist-based, anti-American resistance operating both west and north of Baghdad--came in fourth with 48 votes.

    By any count, getting only one ally elected out of four seats on this potentially all-important electoral oversight body does not bode well for the Bush administration. After the Iraqi National Council was formed, but before it voted, White House spokesman Scott McClellan, while at President Bush’s family ranch in Crawford, Texas, declared: “The selection of the council is a sign that the Iraqi people will not allow terrorist elements to stand in the way of their democratic future.”

    But what if elections in Iraq early next year lead to a government unlike anything ever expected by the Bush administration? The respected Arabist from the University of Michigan, Juan Cole, was among the first to report the Iraqi National Council election results on his blog, www.juancole.com. “So,” he quipped, “this list is further evidence that the U.S. invaded Iraq to install in power a coalition of Communists, Islamists and ex-Ba’athist nationalists. If you had said such a thing 3 years ago you would have been laughed at.”

sgtclub 09-27-2004 06:10 PM

Bill Kristol must read my rants
 
duplicate post

sgtclub 09-27-2004 06:11 PM

Bill Kristol must read my rants
 

From Newsmax:
  • Among the more egregious of the tragicomic whoppers noted:


    Kerry now claims the "most important task" is to win the "war on terrorism." Yet Kerry, speaking to his pets at the New York Times in March, refused to call the war on terror a war, RNC recalled.
    Kerry then: "The final victory in the war on terror depends on a victory in the war of ideas, much more than the war on the battlefield. And the war - not the war, I don’t want to use that terminology."



    Kerry now claims Iraq was a "diversion from" the war on terror. On Dec. 15 he said: "Iraq may not be the war on terror itself, but it is critical to the outcome of the war on terror."

    Kerry now claims Saddam Hussein's evil was not enough to justify war. Here's what he said in a speech July 29, 2002:
    "I agree completely with this administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq – Saddam Hussein is a renegade and outlaw who turned his back on the tough conditions of his surrender put in place by the United Nations in 1991."



    Kerry now claims Saddam’s "downfall ... has left America less secure." Oopsy: Here's his anti-Dean, anti-Saddam stand in December 2003, according to Newsday:
    "Those who doubted whether Iraq or the world would be better off without Saddam Hussein, and those who believe we are not safer with his capture, don’t have the judgment to be president or the credibility to be elected president."


    Kerry now claims the decision to go into Iraq was a "colossal" failure. Yet on Aug. 9, Kerry said that had he known then what he knew now, he would still have voted for the use-of-force resolution, according to CNN:
    "Yes, I would have voted for the authority. I believe it's the right authority for a president to have. But I would have used that authority, as I have said throughout this campaign, effectively."


    Kerry now claims Saddam was not a "threat to our security." Here's what he said in January 2003, according to the L.A. Times: "If you don't believe ... Saddam Hussein is a threat with nuclear weapons, then you shouldn't vote for me."


    Kerry now claims Saddam's "capability to acquire weapons" was not reason enough for war. Yet according to the Congressional Record of Oct. 9, 2002, he called those who would leave the Iraqi dictator alone "naive to the point of grave danger."
    And so on and so forth.

    At least no one can say Kerry is two-faced. He has so many more faces than that.


http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2...0/153604.shtml

eft

Shape Shifter 09-27-2004 06:14 PM

Bill Kristol must read my rants
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
[Kerry flip-flops]


(AP) President Bush said Tuesday "we will win" the war on terror, seeking to quell controversy and Democratic criticism over his earlier remark that victory may not be possible.

In a speech to the national convention of the American Legion, Mr. Bush said, "We meet today in a time of war for our country, a war we did not start, yet one that we will win.

That statement differed from Mr. Bush's earlier comment, aired Monday in a pre-taped television interview, that "I don't think you can win" the war on terror. That had Democrats running for the cameras to criticize him for being defeatist and flip-flopping from previous predictions of victory.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in639576.shtml

SlaveNoMore 09-27-2004 06:18 PM

Bill Kristol must read my rants
 
Quote:

Tyrone Slothrop
You guys like to say this, so I refer you back to the article cited here by me and (noted lefty) Less in which the SF Chronicle's Washington bureau chief, Marc Sandalow, actually looked at Kerry's position over time -- instead of the GOP talking points you've been sucking up somewhere -- and reported that's he's been consistent over time. Moderate, so he gets attacked from both sides, and maybe too nuanced to make an effective presidential candidated, but consistent.
This article has been flayed apart by both sides since its publication.

taxwonk 09-27-2004 06:21 PM

Bill Kristol must read my rants
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Tell me, why wasn't Allawi merely promoting the IRAQI agenda?
Interesting question. I suppose he probably wasn't given adequate time after hitting all the Bush campaign talking points.

And if he was going to address the Iraqi agenda in the US, why then did he not ask why, after giving over $20 million to Halliburton, there is no power for much of the day in most of the country?

Why was he not asking Congress why the American contractors they are throwing so much money at to get the Iraqi oil wells up and pumping why it is that the natural gas that could be used to provide fuel for utilities is being flared off at the wellhead?

Why was he not asking for doctors and teachers?

Tell me, why wasn't Allawi promoting the Iraqi agenda?

SlaveNoMore 09-27-2004 06:22 PM

Bill Kristol must read my rants
 
Quote:

Shape Shifter
That statement differed from Mr. Bush's earlier comment, aired Monday in a pre-taped television interview, that "I don't think you can win" the war on terror.
An off-the-cuff comment to Matt Lauer on a train in specific context is hardly comparable to 6 months' worth of Kerry speeches.

But hey, run with what you got.


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