Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you're talking about, but an image of debtor's prison out of Dickens just popped into my head. To be clear, not in a good way.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

So ... almost all of our prisons when someone can't pay the fine or bail.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

It's times like this I'm glad I"m poorly read.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

I'm just glad I haven't seen Alien.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

How about Aliens? I'd love to have that to look forward to you. Jel.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

I don't do scary movies.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

But you watched West Wing?

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

Hey, Sebby. Read the first six or seven paragraphs of this. And then tell me that Trump isn't really doing anything different from what Obama did, he's just doing it moreso. Tell me you really believe that.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

I find it hard to believe that anyone has watched that show as much as Ms. Slothrop, often when I have been in the room.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

I forgot that Americans are not too good with subtlety.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

I think it's great that Trump wants to do a big parade. Off all the things he could spend his time doing, that one has to be about the least dangerous.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

I think you've grasped it. I am advocating actions which demonstrate to all Americans the lack of power behind the enforcement mechanisms used to compel people to honor contracts and pay debts.

I don't think everyone should do this. Only the people complaining about inequality, or who are suffering under "odious" (term of art) debts. People who are the victims of rentier capitalists.

Those people complain and complain about inequality, and yet they take no action to remedy it.

A contract is only as good as one's ability to enforce it. If millions of Americans struggling to make ends meet decided to refuse to pay their debts, the system would be compelled to admit that it cannot compete with mass movements of little people. First, the value of credit ratings would evaporate, as the algorithms aren't constructed to address a mass intentional default. Second, the legal contract enforcement mechanisms - lawsuits, garnishments, etc. - cannot address a mass wave of defaults.

Have you ever said "Make me" when somebody told you to do something, and then they couldn't? Once a bluff is called, the person seeking to compel another to do or not do something is left pretty much powerless.

The system of enforcement of contracts in this country is easily challenged, and could shown to be far weaker than many unsophisticated people grasp.

The only impediment to a mass "bluff calling" which would turn rentier capitalism on its ear is the prisoner's dilemma. The little guy is scared, and he often lacks the education to understand his own leverage. But if he did, and if he could get past that prisoner's dilemma, trust his fellow little people, and they all banded together in a non-violent "financial revolt," you'd see some serious change, seriously fast.

Why else would the finance industry have been so incensed at Occupy? Why else would banks hire infiltrators to sabotage a gathering of largely stoned kids? Why would Goldman's security work with law enforcement to share intel on silly kids in a tent city? Because those hopeless kids had the right idea... just awful execution, and no organization.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

Yeah, I think the people who are truly judgment proof take this option all the time.

You're talking about people who have something to lose, and that's the problem.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

Hey, Ty, did I miss the part where McConnell brought the Dream Act through committee and to the floor for a vote? Or are we still just ignoring how Schumer caved in exchange for nothing?

Also, it's obscene we're further increasing defense spending. If there's one thing we clearly do not need to do...

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

Now I don't know what planet I'm on. I'll say it again -- debtor's prison. As Less astutely noted, but I thought this was obvious, these institutions exist right now, whether in the form of actual prison or in forces deeply rooted in our institutional systems that prevent people from fully participating in society. What do you mean -- lack of power?

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

Saying he "caved" implies that he gave something up.

Meanwhile, to me this last paragraph from a WaPo story captures the essence of conservatism:

Rep. Mark Walker (R-N.C.), chairman of the Republican Study Committee, a key conservative bloc, tweeted that “the Budget Caps Deal is a struggle for any one with fiscal concerns. However, the longer [Pelosi] bloviates on the House Floor against the deal — the more I’m inclined to support it.”

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

Hi friends, I have had a couple of firms reach out to me to sign me up to do short-term consulting about the industry I've been working in. What should my hourly rate be?

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

Double what you think is fair.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

You're missing the mass movement component of it. I'm not talking about the millions of people effectively forced off the grid by the system.

I'm talking about the tens of millions living from check to check, totally fucked. People still allowed to be part of society, but effectively struggling debt serfs. When I bought and sold debt I saw thousands upon thousands in a small section of my own state. There are tons of these people.

If these people all got together and refused to pay, the system could not do anything to them. It would have to bargain with them.

The enforcement mechanisms (including the virtual debtors' prisons Less noted) are not designed to address a mass intentional default scenario. They simply don't have the manpower and resources to do so. But to do this would take tens of millions of people together willing to take on a risk, and stick with it. That's a heavy lift, because (1) people don't trust one another, and (2) the enforcement mechanisms can be brutal to any one individual.

You're mistaking the system's ability to scare or punish any one or two individuals with strength adequate to address a mass movement. The former it can do. Regarding the latter, it would fail. And if that bluff were called, what would stop everyone else from testing it?

If the oppressed want a true revolution, that's the only way they can do it. Fighting in the political system, waiting for redistribution? That's just serfs asking for more gruel.

Disobedience is the only thing that works. Ghandi, Havel, the Scots, the ex-Soviet Republics, MLK... what do all successful movements have in common? Disobeying the system. Proving the system isn't as strong as it seems.

But I doubt people will ever do it here. We apply a perfect Huxley fix. Placate them with diversions, video games, opioids. Keep them bickering amongst each other, scapegoating each other. Soma and skirmishes. Works like a charm.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

$3,500.00

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

I'd avoid an hourly and look to a daily, perhaps with a breakout for half-days. I don't know what you've been make or what the level is, but somewhere from $2.5K per day on the low end to $5K per day on the high end would be what I see for short term professional consulting deals; if it's higher than $5K per day, you probably should be thinking about a flat fee, you know, $40K per month and you'll be available roughly quarter time.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.4d4315abac3b

internet etiquette

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

To say that I have disappointed that previously Tea Party-affiliated congressmen being willing to spend like drunken sailors is an understatement. But Pelosi has an approval rate of 25%. Compared with her, Trump is hugely popular. I fully expect the Dems to take a bunch of seats in November, but I think a prominent Pelosi could mute the gains, because I think the GOP can successfully make local elections about her, assuming they don’t run a bunch of pedophiles.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

I expect a completely wild ride this election. There will be pedophiles, among other scandals, there will be smear campaigns, complete with Russian trolls, there will be voter suppression and court battles over gerrymandering, there will be October surprises, there will be white supremacists, there will be the overwrought evangelicals and prosperity preachers, and if the going gets tough for the Rs we will probably see military action against North Korea or Iran to try to rally people. And don't forget the tanks parading down a main street near you. It will be a gothic spectacle beyond anything Flannery O'Connor might have imagined.

The outcome is impossible to predict today, other than the credibility of our democracy suffering.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

As to tea partiers spending like drunken sailors, when were they ever not going to do that? It was always a question of what the spending would be on, and where the government would stick its nose, not whether there would be any. Rounding up a few million undocumented immigrants, herding them into camps, and getting them somewhere else isn't cheap, and the tea party was always pushing larger, more militarized police departments and heavier military spending and, of course, spending programs like "the wall" come right out of that crowd.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

I read a headline about that earlier today and I assumed it was an Onion type joke. How the fuck old are these people? What the ever living hell.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

Apparently Republican members are upset because they or their staff are under investigation for ethics breaches, and things putting a wall between themselves and the dems will lessen the risks of getting caught.

You know what else would lessen the risks? Not violating ethics rules.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

I'm thinking about Christopher Steele and wondering what doing Fusion's work has meant for his life, just out of curiosity. Can he travel to Russia anymore? What can he do for living? Can he go out in public?

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

Since when are Americans so antagonistic toward Englishmen named Steele? He was just doing his job.

https://i2.wp.com/www.mysterytribune...ality=95&ssl=1

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

Not sure on the Russia thing, but I don't see why any of this would adversely impact him at home. The dossier has been criticized, but not been debunked. And most of the UK detests Trump.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

Really? I've always found right wing hatred for Pelosi bizarre. She's an inoffensive, dithering old grandmother. I've never heard her say anything of consequence, or anything scandalous enough to make me consider reading anything in depth about her. (I do like some of her daughter's documentaries, however.)

I suspect most moderate voters feel the same.

I suspect most moderate voters don't give much of a shit about any Congresswoman from a district other than theirs. Pelosi hatred strikes me as something for the people who listen to Hannity or Limbaugh. And I say this as someone who's worked with GOP political operatives. YMMV, but I've never heard any normal people getting in a lather about Pelosi. Just the loons. And I don't see how congressional races around the country are going to be swayed by anger toward her.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

And nothing below Veuve, no brown M&Ms, and a fresh lotus on every conference room table.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

It's probably best to respond to the centerpiece quote there:

Agreed. I'm not going to get all Safire on you here, but this is part of a much bigger conversation of the abuses and limitations of language generally.

Have you worked in politics? Half of the time, politicians are lying. There's no way to satisfy all of the public, and you have to triangulate every issue. You have to lie, constantly, to survive and get anything done.

Most of the voters shouldn't be allowed to vote. You can't give 100% of the truth to these people. Talk to ten random "everymen" on the street and ask them some questions about policy. Fuck that.... Just watch Jimmy Kimmel do it in his "man on the street" bits.

Trump is right. The question is whether it is dangerous to tell the public they're being lied to a lot of the time.

This is where Trump may go too far. To be a politician gives you a limited license to lie as necessary. He grossly abuses the privilege for whatever expedient ends he desires in the moment. Much more so than his exclamations about everything being fake news, this plunges us into a vacuum where there is no way to ascertain facts from fiction. This is truly dangerous and unique -- unlike all predecessors in his office.

What Trump is doing is potentially dangerous, but entirely rational. If you're faced with numerous adversaries, and at an insurmountable power disadvantage within a game, but you have the power to potentially flip the entire board, scatter the pieces, and start a new game, you have to attempt to do so.

Past Presidents have lied in limited manners, usually with plausible deniability, out of necessity. That was within the accepted rules of the game. You are correct that Trump is a new thing. He is lying with the intent of blowing up the game. You might say this is treasonous. And it might be. But from another angle, it might just be a natural expansion of the game. When the rules make winning as you desire impossible, what else is a player to do? And who gets to decide what rules may not be broken? The people who were previously winning?

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

This little quote nicely encapsulates why nothing you ever write should be taken seriously by any sentient being.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

Given his background (as an English spy with Russia expertise), the publicity may have killed his livelihood, and I also think that the potential for press attention might scare off potential employers.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

Conservatives exist in reaction to the left. Pelosi fills the role that Obama and Kerry and Clinton all played, and none were so hated once they left power. Once Pelosi is gone, it will be someone else who prompts the visceral reaction, and the wingers will all say it's about the person.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

No. The key to that piece is what Trump is actually doing, not that characterization of it. By reacting to the latter, you walk away from the former.

Thank you for acknowledging that what Trump is doing is new. I know it's hard for you to do that, and I appreciate the effort. But it's not just that he's lying. He said Democrats are guilty of treason and un-American for not supporting him. I don't see that as a natural expansion of the game, and you can pretend it is only by abstracting away from what he is actually doing.

The answer to your question is, we all do. It's a democracy, and we are all engaged in a constant process of agreeing on rules and norms. What Trump is doing to gratify his own ego and to advantage himself and his political party is deeply corrosive to our common challenge of trying to live in the same country together. The fact that most Republicans are going along with it should be deeply disturbing.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

No, man, you just don't get it, with your cute little civics lessons about society collectively setting the rules that govern us, you stupid fucking snowflake. Fuck that tired ass shit, man. Don't you see, it's time to flip the script. Trump is all like, Ima gonna disrupt the shit outta this motherfucker. It's rational, it's the only way he can win. I mean, if you can't win by playing by the rules, it's not only o.k. to cheat, it is a moral requirement! Actually, fuck cheating, man. I don't think he's going far enough. Sebastian's totes right about this one, dude. You gotta flip the whole game upside down, pour some gas on it, and burn it. You know who really disrupted the hell out of some shit? Pol Pot, man. Pol Motherfucking Pot. Dude was like, there is no way I'm gonna win playing by the rules of these corrupt motherfuckers who came before me, some I'll just kill their asses dead. Who's gonna stop me? The motherfucking educated urban elite motherfuckers? Not when I ship their sorry glasses-wearing asses off to the country to be reeducated. What else was he supposed to do? It was entirely rational. HE HAD TO DO IT. No way he would have been able to #win if he had played by the conventional rules set up by suckers like you. So he tore the pages out of the rulebook and wiped his ass with them.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.