LawTalkers - Waiting for Fitzgerald

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
In fairness to my state Party, the Dems in Maryland had nothing to do with the minstrel depiction of Steele. That blog is run by an African-American from New York whose politics are of the "progressive" persuasion. I don't think he's even a Democrat.

Steele is well-liked in Maryland - seems to me like a really good guy whose politics are slightly misguided.

I'm really surprised by the Oreo thing -- would have thought that I would have heard about it. Maybe the Washington Times has breaking news. I think that all of this stuff is beyond the pale. sts. npi.

S_A_M

You are grasping at straws here S_A_M. The Dems in MD have been exposed (minstrel show or not, although I wouldn't doubt that NYer is a covert agent Demo) as racists. Stop trying to backpeddle and apologise and join the righteous in supporting an end to the plantation politics of the dimwits.

Spanky

11-02-2005 04:27 PM

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Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
But, I must confess, I do see your point about Iran. The close alliance between Iran and Iraq from 1979 through to today all but gurantees Hussein spirited the arms to his brothhers in arms in the Iranian regime.

Right before Guld War I he flew all his jets to Iran.

taxwonk

11-02-2005 04:27 PM

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Originally posted by Penske_Account
Are you saying my solidarity with the jews and the moderate radical islamics over our shared boycott of the pork is misplaced?

The boycott of the pork is displaced. It's not like you're talking sweetbreads, here, man.

Penske_Account

11-02-2005 04:27 PM

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Originally posted by Shape Shifter
We're outsourcing our intelligence to other countries now? What if their motives are different than ours?

I trust their motives more than those of the career bureaucrats at State or the Valerie Plames at CIA. Israel's motivations are purely self-defence and preservation. America's looney left is so stupid that they want to give the enemies the keys to city hall so they can do us in from within.

taxwonk

11-02-2005 04:28 PM

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Originally posted by Penske_Account
I call false and slanderous PoPD!

Well, I guess you'd know it if anyone here would.

Not Bob

11-02-2005 04:28 PM

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Originally posted by Penske_Account
I trust their motives more than those of the career bureaucrats at State or the Valerie Plames at CIA. Israel's motivations are purely self-defence and preservation. America's looney left is so stupid that they want to give the enemies the keys to city hall so they can do us in from within.

Jonathan Pollard.

Penske_Account

11-02-2005 04:29 PM

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Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
Chill out, dude. If you're on one of the islands, the prevailing winds should blow the debris clouds eastward, and just think of the real estate investment opportunities that will open up for you!!

Why are you defending treason? Treason, rape, murder, racism, is there no wrong the left is willing to condemn?

Secret_Agent_Man

11-02-2005 04:29 PM

The Plantation Party

Quote:

Originally posted by taxwonk
What a bunch of racist fucks.

I don't normally read the Wash. Times, but . . .

No wonder I hadn't heard of the Oreo cookie thing, or the "Uncle Tom" remark. The cookie incident happened in 2002, during Steele's campaign for Lt. Governor, and the second happened in 2001 while he was chair of the Md. GOP.

This is acknowledged a few paragraphs further down in the article. Blending these incidents together in the lead of a piece about Steele's current run for the Senate is just another example of the "fair and balanced" reporting of the Washington Times.

ETA: Here is what the Democratic Party said about the minstrel depiction -- as reported near the end of the Times article: "A spokesman for the Maryland Democratic Party denounced the depiction as being 'extremely offensive' and having 'no place in politics or in any other aspect of public discourse,' The Washington Post reported. Democrats have denied any connection to the News Blog."

S_A_M

Penske_Account

11-02-2005 04:30 PM

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Originally posted by Shape Shifter
Were we signatories to the Geneva Convention then?

Geneva Convention doesn't cover stateless terrorists does it?

Penske_Account

11-02-2005 04:30 PM

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Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
Generally you worry about that but not in the case of the Israelis. They're our friends, and we are theirs.

2. this is why i don't eat the pig.

taxwonk

11-02-2005 04:30 PM

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Originally posted by Penske_Account
In self defence. Plus God told Bush it was okay.

It's not self-defense if they're in prison. Even super- secret double-supervision plausibly deniable until it got leaked prison. And God doesn't talk to Bush.

Penske_Account

11-02-2005 04:32 PM

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Originally posted by taxwonk
The boycott of the pork is displaced. It's not like you're talking sweetbreads, here, man.

Hmmm, you are causing me to re-examine core beliefs. I am not sure I know what is right anymoure.

taxwonk

11-02-2005 04:33 PM

The Plantation Party

Quote:

SAM, you will find, if you pay any attention to me at all, that I don't generally deal in labels, and in particular in party affiliations. I prefer to take each person on their own. I wasn't talking about the "Dems." I was specifically referring to the actors in the quoted peice.

Penske_Account

11-02-2005 04:33 PM

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Originally posted by taxwonk
Well, I guess you'd know it if anyone here would.

Yes, being harassed, stalked and victimised on a regular basis has made me acutely aware of the parameters of such attacks.

Spanky

11-02-2005 04:34 PM

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Originally posted by baltassoc
I listen to you, but I fear the wrath of Spanky.

It suits you just perfectly. We will just pretend that no one said something negative about your Avatar.

Penske_Account

11-02-2005 04:35 PM

The Plantation Party

Quote:

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
I don't normally read the Wash. Times, but . . .

No wonder I hadn't heard of the Oreo cookie thing, or the "Uncle Tom" remark. The cookie incident happened in 2002, during Steele's campaign for Lt. Governor, and the second happened in 2001 while he was chair of the Md. GOP.

This is acknowledged a few paragraphs further down in the article. Blending these incidents together in the lead of a piece about Steele's current run for the Senate is just another example of the "fair and balanced" reporting of the Washington Times.

S_A_M

Having happened several years ago does not excuse the behaviour. the same people are still in control of the looneys. Repent S_A_M, you are better than those racists.

Sexual Harassment Panda

11-02-2005 04:35 PM

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If their motives are purely self-defense and preservation, wouldn't they be motivated to tell us a lie that would get us to invade Syria?

I await your response.

Captain

11-02-2005 04:35 PM

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Originally posted by Spanky
But they killed spies right on sight (Washington hung Beneditct Arnold's coconspirator right when they caught him). And that is a spy that was not out to kill women and children.

John Andre, Arnold's co-conspirator, was hung only after being found guilty by a military tribunal, and Washington was subject, even during war, to criticism for providing him with an inadequate trial.

The Founders would have had a number of different views, but, ironically, the more conservative among them would, I believe, have been very protective of the concept that later became known as due process. They viewed their right to a trial by jury, their right of habeus corpus, and other such rights as among their most fundamental.

Replaced_Texan

11-02-2005 04:35 PM

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Originally posted by taxwonk
The boycott of the pork is displaced. It's not like you're talking sweetbreads, here, man.

Plus, how could anyone boycott carnitas?

taxwonk

11-02-2005 04:36 PM

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Originally posted by Penske_Account
Hmmm, you are causing me to re-examine core beliefs. I am not sure I know what is right anymoure.

Then my work here is done. I can retire.

Penske_Account

11-02-2005 04:37 PM

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Originally posted by taxwonk
It's not self-defense if they're in prison. Even super- secret double-supervision plausibly deniable until it got leaked prison. And God doesn't talk to Bush.

Its in furtherance of self defence to get the info regardless of where they are.

Dissent. the palestinians said God talked to Bush and the dems have told me how righteous that group is. I can't not believe when it is the followers of Nobel Peace Prise winner and Clinton pal Arafat attesting to the divine discussion.

Secret_Agent_Man

11-02-2005 04:37 PM

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Originally posted by Spanky
Right before Guld War I he flew all his jets to Iran.

Yes, and they held the pilots as POWs and kept Saddam's Air Force to add to their own.

I doubt he'd send Iran anything he wanted back. Fool me once . . .

S_A_M

Penske_Account

11-02-2005 04:38 PM

The Plantation Party

Quote:

Originally posted by taxwonk
SAM, you will find, if you pay any attention to me at all, that I don't generally deal in labels, and in particular in party affiliations. I prefer to take each person on their own. I wasn't talking about the "Dems." I was specifically referring to the actors in the quoted peice.

The actors are part of the group, why apologise for one but decry the other? Is the Klan okay but for its individual members?

Penske_Account

11-02-2005 04:39 PM

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Originally posted by Not Bob
Jonathan Pollard.

His motives were fine, his acts were criminal.

[outable] eta: str8 moment: I once bought his first wife's dad some beers. At chadwicks [/outable]

sebastian_dangerfield

11-02-2005 04:40 PM

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Originally posted by taxwonk
So you're saying that it's okay to torture, kill, and abuse people who believe it's okay to torture, kill, and abuse people?

No, I'm saying its easy and brings no moral pangs to ignore the torture and killing of torturers and killers. I wouldn't vote to allow torture, and I wouldn't engage in torture.

But I'm not about to rail against the torture of the sort of people who did things like AQ and the Taliban do.

Don't give me some shit about "If you don't stand up to torture here, you're standing up FOR it everywhere." We're beyond that shit reasoning/sloganeering/gamesmanship, aren't we?

Penske_Account

11-02-2005 04:40 PM

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Originally posted by Spanky
It suits you just perfectly. We will just pretend that no one said something negative about your Avatar.

Have you been to the DU?

Penske_Account

11-02-2005 04:41 PM

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Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
If their motives are purely self-defense and preservation, wouldn't they be motivated to tell us a lie that would get us to invade Syria?

they are about self-defence, not imperialistic conquest.

Secret_Agent_Man

11-02-2005 04:41 PM

The Plantation Party

Quote:

Originally posted by Penske_Account
Having happened several years ago does not excuse the behaviour. the same people are still in control of the looneys. Repent S_A_M, you are better than those racists.

You are right its no excuse.

It does strike me, though, that almost all of this abuse comes from his fellow blacks. Penske would attribute this to teh Stockholm syndrome.

But, if so, that can't be racism, can it? After all, its impossible for blacks to be racists because they are the victims of racism, right? Right? [I've been on the other side of that argument a time or two.]

S_A_M

Captain

11-02-2005 04:42 PM

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Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
But I'm not about to rail against the torture of the sort of people who did things like AQ and the Taliban do.

The question is, how do we know these are the sort of people who do things like AQ and the Taliban?

I don't think your view is that someone must be guilty or they wouldn't have been arrested, but tell me if I am wrong on that.

sebastian_dangerfield

11-02-2005 04:43 PM

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Originally posted by taxwonk
There is only on God, and em is not false. It's the humans and their rituals that are universally fucked up.

Finally. That's cleared up.

Penske_Account

11-02-2005 04:43 PM

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Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
Plus, how could anyone boycott carnitas?

In deference to the moderate radical islamics, no?

Penske_Account

11-02-2005 04:44 PM

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Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
No, I'm saying its easy and brings no moral pangs to ignore the torture and killing of torturers and killers. I wouldn't vote to allow torture, and I wouldn't engage in torture.

But I'm not about to rail against the torture of the sort of people who did things like AQ and the Taliban do.

Don't give me some shit about "If you don't stand up to torture here, you're standing up FOR it everywhere." We're beyond that shit reasoning/sloganeering/gamesmanship, aren't we?

Yes we are.

sebastian_dangerfield

11-02-2005 04:45 PM

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Originally posted by Captain
The question is, how do we know these are the sort of people who do things like AQ and the Taliban?

I don't think your view is that someone must be guilty or they wouldn't have been arrested, but tell me if I am wrong on that.

I'll bet you think you're pretty clever for finding that Achilles heel in my argument, which pretty much fucks up my argument completely. Well, to that, man, I say....

You are pretty smart.

Uncle.

But I never really expected to slip that one past the goalie anyway, so there (as I take my ball and leave...).

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)

11-02-2005 04:45 PM

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Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
the article points to one reason- the location could make a friendly nation an increased terror target.

. . .

What the CIA does should disgust and frighten you, and you shouldn't know about it.

I don't disagree with not disclosing the location. But the existence? In a free and open democracy? I don't have much trust for any of our leaders, regardless of party. Why should I let them tell me to "trust us". The only thing I can digest that's made this way is sausage.

Not Bob

11-02-2005 04:46 PM

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Originally posted by Penske_Account
His motives were fine, his acts were criminal.

[outable] eta: str8 moment: I once bought his first wife's dad some beers. At chadwicks [/outable]

Bullshit on his "fine" motives. He was a spy, and I could care less that he acted for Israel instead of another state. Israel acts in Israel's interests -- happily, their interests coincide with our interests much of the time, but that doesn't change the fact that Pollard betrayed his country at the behest of the Israelis.

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)

11-02-2005 04:46 PM

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Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
What ultimately fascinates me about stories like this is that - although these black sites are only "known about" by a handful of officials both here in the US and in the host country - this author, as well as countless others, sure seems to know a hell of a lot about them.

Probably a bunch of people formerly in teh know had their own negative gut reactions, and were happy to talk.

Penske_Account

11-02-2005 04:46 PM

The Plantation Party

Quote:

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
You are right its no excuse.

It does strike me, though, that almost all of this abuse comes from his fellow blacks. Penske would attribute this to teh Stockholm syndrome.

But, if so, that can't be racism, can it? After all, its impossible for blacks to be racists because they are the victims of racism, right? Right? [I've been on the other side of that argument a time or two.]

S_A_M

Its racism by proxy.

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)

11-02-2005 04:47 PM

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Originally posted by Spanky
I don't think that the founding fathers would have ever imagined that foreign nationals covertly working to kill US nationals would get protection from the US Constitution.

Perhaps not. But I don't think they thought their ideas on democracy were so bad that they shouldn't ultimately be adopted and applied throughout the world.

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)

11-02-2005 04:47 PM

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Originally posted by Penske_Account
WMDs. Now they are in Syria and Iran. Good thing we have such a convenient platform to launch the battles against those two terrorist states.

Is that from the bases at which there's insufficient armour?

bTW, is that where teh Iraq WMDs were moved to by Saddam from his rat hole?

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)

11-02-2005 04:47 PM

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Quote:

Originally posted by Penske_Account
WMDs. Now they are in Syria and Iran. Good thing we have such a convenient platform to launch the battles against those two terrorist states.

Is that from the bases at which there's insufficient armour?

bTW, is that where teh Iraq WMDs were moved to by Saddam from his rat hole?

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