Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

Just because Flower has pointed out your prior uses, whether intentional or not, of irony, I thought I'd highlight this one.

Dude. You voted for fucking Johnson.

Re: Beige 5
 

It really boils down to this: He will distract the Jurors away from listening. One side will like that and the other side will not wan that. The lawyer for the side that wants the jury to listen will have a choice. Let him stay and be able to tell people you tried a case with him on the jury OR do what is best for your case and bounce him? For that matter if it is clear you bounced him, wouldn't the other jurors hate you from the start. No, there were far bigger issues and challenges at play yesterday than your silly belt problem.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

It's kind of hard to escape that conclusion given that we backlash against Trumpism we were hoping for/expecting actually showed up in VA.

I guess it's possible that it just took a year and Trump winning for people to realize that they really do need to go out and say no to this crap (and Hank's point about polling could be a factor. But it's hard not to think that distrust and dislike of Hillary was too.

There is literally nothing that can be done. They don't like Trump because they believe he'll do anything for them. They like him because he hates the people they hate. There's no appealing to that group without joining in.

That's not happening.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

How does one stick with Catholicism beyond third grade?

I've few early memories, but I recall as early as then, sitting through a service and thinking, this right here... this is some badly made up shit.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

That's why Griswald V. Ct is such a good intro to the abortion cases. You're reading your case book thinking NWTAF?

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

When will "cognitive dissonance" be listed by Webster's as a synonym for religion?

Re: Beige 5
 

This is the dumbest thing you have ever said on this forum.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

No, because most opposition to abortion isn't opposition to abortion but rather broader disapproval of sex and belief that sinful sex should have consequences, including childbirth. Doing things that actually reduce abortions - i.e., education about and access to contraception - doesn't reduce any sinful sex and thus is not an acceptable abortion strategy. Also, the intended audience likely wrongly believes that contraception actually increases the amount of sinful sex in the world.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

3G: I misread your survey question; apologies. We agree that Catholics ignore doctrine on birth control. The evidence is irrefutable.

But Dems have to get away from shunning people like Robert Casey, the former centrist governor of Pennsylvania, who was ardently pro-life. Given how tight some of the races in rust belt states are, just a wee bit of flexibility...toleration...if you will... for pro-Life candidates could lead to more progressive government.

You agree to disagree on the abortion issue and you find common ground on preventing unwanted pregnancy. Then you move to the other 10 issues where you agree.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

I couldn't stand either of them and figured she had it in the bag. That's not irrational.

After his election, when he announced he'd be doing infrastructure, I thought, "This isn't so bad."

Now? The only silver lining I'm seeing is, perhaps serious people will stand up and say, we have to start reaching across the aisles and compromising.

I think the problem is with Congress. Yes, Trump worsens things. But the R Congress and Obama were at war for eight years before. And I know your reply to that: "Obama tried to work with them initially." I said that same thing to someone who ran a department under Obama. This person's response to me was, "No. Obama didn't really try to work with Rs initially. He just did a very good job of making it appear that way, which was politically shrewd and effective."

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

I can't agree. Sure there is a puritan streak. Granted. Some people think sex leads to dancing, too. But I think a substantial number of people draw the line in the sand at abortion, not at premarital sex. Move those people into the Democratic column, and the national map looks a lot bluer.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

Re Catholicism, the prohibition on artificial birth control (they actually endorse using something called the Rhythm Method, which times a woman's fertility cycle) appears more a device to create more bodies to fill pews and donate. Mormonism is running a similar strategy at the moment with its emphasis on pumping out issue like rabbits.

It's a truly vile doctrine in areas where people are short on food and resources.

Re: Time for a Crash
 

Who do you think we get to leisure (if that's even the goal), without removing the need for labor? The whole basis of the Keynes prediction you cite is that technology drives the cost to produce human needs off a cliff.

It's probably wrong, but still, what you constantly leave out is that technology will make production cheaper (if it won't, it won't be adopted). You only consider one side of the equation. Even if it "weakens the pocket book" (it doesn't, but whatever), in your view of how the world works, it reduces the cost of what they need to buy.

Now you're concerned about a glut of savings that can't find productive investment?? In a world of technologic advancement? That's nonsensical.

Yes, you're advancing straight-forward Ludditism (is that a word?).

You mean in the presence of changes in our tax and regulatory systems and social programs specifically designed to create rentier capitalism, we've seen rentier capitalism take hold.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

NFP is not the rhythm method, btw. It worked to help us expeditiously conceive the Chicklets (and the pregnancies we lost). Preventing pregnancy takes a fair amount of care and attention, but can be effective for people who know what they're doing. Cervical mucus and basal body temps are pretty good indicators.

And I'm not even Catholic.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

I don't think the abortion issue is primarily about Catholics.