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Originally posted by Penske_Account
Go back to 48, when the Israel and Palestine were created. From the start, while Israel was willing to accept international law, the Arab nations chose to ignore. Everything Israel has done since then has been in self-defense.
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Israel was willing to accept International law because at that time it swung in their direction. But later when it has not they have ignored it. If the UN had not supported the creation of Israel do you think the Jews that had migrated to Palestine would have accepted that?
When the UN voted to give them a state that was international law that should be respected, but when it told them other things they ignored the international law? Either UN resolutions are international law, and Israel is and has violated them, or UN resolution are not international law, and then Israel has no right to exist under international law. You can't have it both ways.
You talk of Natural rights, but the Palestinians had no rights. They were occupied by a foreign power, and foreign powers decided the fate of the land they lived on. If the UN voted that South Carolina should be given to the Gypsies would you support that? Say it was OK under international law?
If a vote of the population of Palestine had been taken in 48 to see if part the land should be reserved for a Jewish state then there would be no Jewish state. Why did the Jews have a "natural right" to create a homeland in a place that was already occupied by another people. If these people where not occupied by a foreign power they would have never allowed these actions to take place.
Natural rights and International law really don't have much relevence in a discussion about Israel.
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Originally posted by Penske_Account
If the Arabs want peaceful coexistence, then natural rights and international laws, which they have ignored since 48, need to be acknowledged and respected. Truth is, they want genocide.
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They want ethnic cleansing not Genocide. In the Arab mind a state based on Jewish ethnicity was placed right in the middle of the Arab nation by the western powers. In the Muslim mind, a Jewish religious state was placed right in the middle of a muslim nation by Christian powers. Are they wrong?
Quote:
Originally posted by Penske_Account
As for the changing nature of borders, there are plenty of Pols, Germans and American Indians who would like their former homelands back too. Should we address their concerns? Are they anymore or less legit than the Palis?
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No one defends these actions you cite as moral acts, or actions sanctioned by international law. The extermination of the Indians was wrong, and you cant really expect the Indians think is was a good thing. At the end of the WWII the Poles were given a whole swath of territory. It was the Germans who were ethnically cleansed out of Konigsburg, Pomerania and Silesia. Once could argue that the German national deserved this because of what the German nation did. The Palestinian nation never attacked its neighbors nor instituted a Genocide, so why should they be punished. In my mind none of these acts were moral (or supported by International law or natural rights) and I don't expect any of the victims to support these actions.
I take your point that these border changes are a done deal. Israel's creation is a done deal. But as you can't expect the victims of these other crimes to accept the morality of these actions you cited (Germans, Indians etc) you also can't expect the Arabs or Muslims to accept what is done to them as either moral, part of Natural Rights or part of a justly implemented International Law.