Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

It happens a lot. People rarely hear about it because the claims are bought off in exchange for confidential agreements.

"That claim is retarded."

"Yeah, but it'll pass a motion to dismiss and cost a bunch in fees."

"Right. Kill it cheap."

Rinse, repeat. In Philly, the cost of nuisance claims of harassment and discrimination are assumed. It's basically an unofficial tax.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

How do you square that with the statement, "Harassment is entirely subjective, within the victim's mind."?

If there's an objective baseline which must be passed in order for someone's claim to be legitimate, it cannot be an entirely subjective thing.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

They do it when they're fired. And if HR hasn't papered the file adequately in terms of prior discipline, they'll get a lawyer, and if they're in a protected class, the sensible economic decision is almost always to write them a check.

Agreed. It's usually when fired.

Faced with a he said/she said situation, it's almost always cheaper to write a small check.

We agree on Franken. Franken got fucked.

That's only half the standard. Economically, it almost always makes sense to write a check, even for the shittiest claim. The other, often more compelling standard is:

Does the potential cost and aggravation approach, meet, or eclipse the cost of $$$ this person will take to walk away? Unless it risks setting a bad precedent, buying off risk at annoyance cost is almost always the prudent course. You never know where this stuff goes. Why take even the long odds of a dollar cost where you can kill the risk for a dime?

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

Cite, please.

TM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

Sebby knows things, TM.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

Yeah. You sound like Trump. "A lot of people are saying..."

Your post is about as convincing as the belief that white people are being constantly screwed by reverse discrimination.

TM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

I've actually seen one where a bigot, being fired for being a bigot, got paid on a retaliatory sex discrim claim. Serve: You're a bigot. You gotta go. Return: Yeah? Well my boss is a sexist, and he treated me badly. Volley back: Damnit. Here's a check. Sign this release and fuck off.

Shit happens all the time.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

I do not believe you. Maybe you saw this occur (although I think 70% of the examples you've experienced or heard are completely made up). But I do not believe this happens often and I happen to know quite a few people who work in talent development at a number of places (departments which handle terminations). It is rare. And organizations almost *always* fight it when there's no evidence of discrimination.

I bet in the case you reference, the bigot's boss was indeed a sexist asshole. Whether a bigot should be rewarded for experiencing sexism is beside the point. You make it sound like she made it up on the spot. And if your story is true (and I kind of think you made it up), you bet your ass there was evidence of sexism.

TM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

All. the. time.

Whether you believe me or not is immaterial. If you fire someone who has a scintilla of a claim, there's a decent chance you'll hear from a lawyer.

I don't believe you know much about the subject, or you wouldn't say what you have. This shit isn't some hidden wisdom. It's well known to almost any employment lawyer.

It's a risk free method to collect a few dollars on the way out the door. Sure, people fight it. But a lot more make simple business decisions. You know this. You're just being a pain in the balls.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

Fact is no one talks much about the justified discrimination claim or the claim that should have been brought because someone is just racist as hell or openly harassing people because, well, these things are everyday and not surprising to anyone. Just looking at law firms where I've worked, a fraction of the claims that could be brought are.

Everyone talks about every single "reverse" discrimination or unjustified discrimination case brought because they're few and far between. I've seen precisely one discrimination case that shouldn't have been brought,but it's one of the cases I've ended up talking about a fair bit because it has some unique features that make it interesting.

Sure, all kinds of stuff happens. The monkey does occasionally type a line from Shakespeare. But the stuff that happens every goddamn day is what we ought to be focused on.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

I think you're confused about what civil rights are. The government's protection of a right to a workplace that is free of sexual harassment is not an effort to solve a market failure that inhibits bargaining between private parties around what the optimum workplace should be like (Boss: I really value the ability to grope my subordinates. Potential subordinate: I'm not crazy about being groped, but the other job I'm looking at has a longer commute, so for the right price I guess I'm fine with that.). Civil rights are inalienable rights that you get by virtue of being a human and a citizen, and so cannot be bargained away.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

I'm not having the subjective/objective discussion. You are, but I'm not sure with whom. (The point I was making, which you are either missing or ducking, is that your description of what might or might not be harassment assumes a male point of view, for no apparent reason other than that it is your own.)

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

Of course there was. It was a workplace that involved men. By now we should know it's everywhere.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

Less might want to consider this story.