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Hank Chinaski 09-15-2005 01:38 PM

I don't get the bid deal.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Penske_Account
This is the stupidest post ever. I post a quote from your senator and conscience, the right racist Klan Kleagle and Grand Cyclops Bobby Byrd, spouting racist shite when he was past the age where youthful ignorance or immaturity can excuse. You compare and create an implicit equivalency between that and a post where I criticise the left for supporting people of such little human character as to applaud the mass murder by terror of 3000 Americans. I suppose this is to be expected as part of the left's continued attempt to excuse and/or rationalise the behaviour of the terrorists.

Anyway, congrats, I thought your "people who give to charity but not the charity of my choice are chumps" post was the stupidest post ever, but you beat your own record. I hope you are not using the juice to reach these new depths.
If you want friends------ you need to be friendly!

Penske_Account 09-15-2005 01:39 PM

I don't get the bid deal.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
You want Blanco reelected?
No. I pray for the people to make the righteous decision. With Bush that was reelection (we won! Yes!), with Blanko it is rejection; however, I am not praying that hard, I have never been to Louisiana and may never go there (other than maybe a quick dip over the state line to pee on Cajun territory and add it to the "States I have been to list"), so what do I care? Let them reap whatever it is they want to sow.......let them eat cake, kingcake. Blanko will face her own special judgment when she comes face to face with the fallen angel Satan some day.

Penske_Account 09-15-2005 01:40 PM

I don't get the bid deal.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
If you want friends------ you need to be friendly!
I have enough friends, at this point I am looking for lovers or enemies. Choose your poison!

Gattigap 09-15-2005 01:45 PM

I don't get the bid deal.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Penske_Account
so what do I care?
Based on posting history, perhaps more than you're willing to admit.

Sexual Harassment Panda 09-15-2005 01:49 PM

I don't get the bid deal.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
You want Blanco reelected?
She will be, after the people read this.

The real question is, if an election was held today, who would win - Bush or Blanco?

baltassoc 09-15-2005 01:53 PM

I don't get the bid deal.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Penske_Account
This is the stupidest post ever. I post a quote from your senator and conscience, the right racist Klan Kleagle and Grand Cyclops Bobby Byrd, spouting racist shite when he was past the age where youthful ignorance or immaturity can excuse. You compare and create an implicit equivalency between that and a post where I criticise the left for supporting people of such little human character as to applaud the mass murder by terror of 3000 Americans. I suppose this is to be expected as part of the left's continued attempt to excuse and/or rationalise the behaviour of the terrorists.

Anyway, congrats, I thought your "people who give to charity but not the charity of my choice are chumps" post was the stupidest post ever, but you beat your own record. I hope you are not using the juice to reach these new depths.
I am comparing the statement made 50 years ago (and nonetheless not acceptable) by someone neither of us know to your completely unacceptable blatently racist comment from two days ago.

You have no idea who that woman is or what she believes. She is to you a "piece of sub-human filth", a "ululating ... whore" and a "terror loving bee-yotch" because she is Palistinian, and for no other reason.

Fuck you, you racist piece of shit. You are not worthy of my contempt.

Hank Chinaski 09-15-2005 02:01 PM

I don't get the bid deal.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
She will be, after the people read this.

The real question is, if an election was held today, who would win - Bush or Blanco?
Go back a year and read all you guys gloating about Farenheit 9/11 and how the election was over. You were right.

What is the source (The American Law Institute), is it unbiased, and can a Congressman approach a researcher of his own choice.

Conyers is a nice man, personally, but he's to the left of Ty politically. I find very little convincing from him.

Secret_Agent_Man 09-15-2005 02:02 PM

I don't get the bid deal.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by baltassoc
I am comparing the statement made 50 years ago (and nonetheless not acceptable) by someone neither of us know to your completely unacceptable blatently racist comment from two days ago.

You have no idea who that woman is or what she believes. She is to you a "piece of sub-human filth", a "ululating ... whore" and a "terror loving bee-yotch" because she is Palistinian, and for no other reason.

Fuck you, you racist piece of shit. You are not worthy of my contempt.
In fairness to Penske (now, that feels odd) the picture in question is a pretty well-known photo of certain Palestinians celebrating the September 11, 2001 attacks on the United States. Note that the fellow next to her in the picture is offering some type of bread/dip -- which I've read is a traditional food for celebrations.

Thus, while his statements were offensive and over-the-top, he did not call her those names merely because she is a Palestinian.

I don't like what I see in the picture, but am unwilling to classify as "sub-human filth" or "whores" all those who celebrate the deaths of people they do not know but perceive as enemies (even innocents). Too many Americans fall into that mode sometimes, but certainly Nut Penske.

S_A_M

Hank Chinaski 09-15-2005 02:02 PM

I don't get the bid deal.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by baltassoc
I am comparing the statement made 50 years ago (and nonetheless not acceptable) by someone neither of us know to your completely unacceptable blatently racist comment from two days ago.

You have no idea who that woman is or what she believes. She is to you a "piece of sub-human filth", a "ululating ... whore" and a "terror loving bee-yotch" because she is Palistinian, and for no other reason.

Fuck you, you racist piece of shit. You are not worthy of my contempt.
Penske shouldn't be bothered that a group of people celebrated 9/11 as a victory- he should leave it up to the Prosecutors to issue supeonas for those guilty of the attack and wait for the Courts?

Tyrone Slothrop 09-15-2005 02:03 PM

I don't get the bid deal.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Penske_Account
I think that photo was new, no? Post-Ty responsibility day.
I took responsibility for what the lefties did, not for all the photographs you have foisted on this board. I'm a reasonable person, but I have my limits.

Secret_Agent_Man 09-15-2005 02:03 PM

I don't get the bid deal.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Go back a year and read all you guys gloating about Farenheit 9/11 and how the election was over. You were right.

What is the source (The American Law Institute), is it unbiased, and can a Congressman approach a researcher of his own choice.

Conyers is a nice man, personally, but he's to the left of Ty politically. I find very little convincing from him.
More to the point -- not one's going to read 27 pages of dense statutory analysis. Geez.

eft

S_A_M

Gattigap 09-15-2005 02:04 PM

I don't get the bid deal.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Go back a year and read all you guys gloating about Farenheit 9/11 and how the election was over. You were right.

I don't know how many times a number of us need to say that we don't care for Moore or his movies for it to actually stick with you, and for you to put this article of faith away. Go back a year and read it yourself.

baltassoc 09-15-2005 02:19 PM

I don't get the bid deal.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
In fairness to Penske (now, that feels odd) the picture in question is a pretty well-known photo of certain Palestinians celebrating the September 11, 2001 attacks on the United States. Note that the fellow next to her in the picture is offering some type of bread/dip -- which I've read is a traditional food for celebrations.

Thus, while his statements were offensive and over-the-top, he did not call her those names merely because she is a Palestinian.

I don't like what I see in the picture, but am unwilling to classify as "sub-human filth" or "whores" all those who celebrate the deaths of people they do not know but perceive as enemies (even innocents). Too many Americans fall into that mode sometimes, but certainly Nut Penske.

S_A_M
Given the context in which he posted the pictures - in a post about Palestian reactions to Israel's withdrawal - I think my misunderstanding was reasonable.

I therefore withdraw the particular inditement of Penske. However, his body of work on this board is ample evidence of the fact that he is still a racist piece of shit.

Hank Chinaski 09-15-2005 02:24 PM

I don't get the bid deal.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
I don't know how many times a number of us need to say that we don't care for Moore or his movies for it to actually stick with you, and for you to put this article of faith away. Go back a year and read it yourself.
I remember ty saying he didn't like MM, but really that wasn't my point. the point was that you guys (maybe not you individually, but certainly several posters) thought the movie would break Bush's back. Of course, you yourself were above watching the movie, but the projected impact of the movie on the election was a topic.

Shape Shifter 09-15-2005 02:27 PM

I don't get the bid deal.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
I remember ty saying he didn't like MM, but really that wasn't my point. the point was that you guys (maybe not you individually, but certainly several posters) thought the movie would break Bush's back. Of course, you yourself were above watching the movie, but the projected impact of the movie on the election was a topic.
Cite, please.

taxwonk 09-15-2005 02:28 PM

Exclusionary Rule
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Captain
While I agree that it's a bizarre decision in a lot of ways, I think the court forced itself into a corner by eliminating other ways of redressing constitutional violations. What good is a constitutional prohibition on an invasion of privacy (an improper search and seizure, for example) without some penalty for a violation of that right? If the court won't mess with sovereign immunity, then the government can't really be held accountable to the constitution, can it? And what good is a constitution that a Government can ignore?

So they latched on to the only remedy left.

But to fix the problem, I think we have to fix sovereign immunity.

(Sorry if this is repetitive, but I think the train of thought had gotten buried before).
I think the basis for the rule is the maxim from Blacksotne's Commentaries: better a hundred guilty men go free than one innocent man hang.

Hank Chinaski 09-15-2005 02:30 PM

I don't get the bid deal.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
Cite, please.
Just trust me. This is a cocktail party, not a research facility.

SlaveNoMore 09-15-2005 02:32 PM

I don't get the bid deal.
 
Quote:

Sexual Harassment Panda
She will be, after the people read this.

The real question is, if an election was held today, who would win - Bush or Blanco?
Funnier is the recent Zogby poll from last week, which shows that Bush - even with his low approval rating - still beats Kerry in an election.

taxwonk 09-15-2005 02:34 PM

I don't get the bid deal.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Penske_Account
that is the biggest who gives a fucking shit in the world. Everyone has to go to the bathroom sometime. These liberals will put no bounds on the level that they will sink to in their psuedo-intellectually smug arrogance to attempt to debase the office of the President and the man who rightfully occupies it.

This from the king of the Clinton photoshops? Partisanship, much?

futbol fan 09-15-2005 02:34 PM

I don't get the bid deal.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
Cite, please.
Hank's a little sensitive about being seen as a library-haunting bookworm bitch after the whole Griswold thing. I don't think he'll be doing any research for a while until he feels a bit more secure.

eta: merde!!!

Bad_Rich_Chic 09-15-2005 02:34 PM

Confirmation hearing shenanigans
 
Quick question (caveat: everything I know about the judicial hearings I learned from the Daily Show):

Did I hear correctly when Biden asked Roberts if he thought it was OK for the government to implant computer chips into people to monitor them?

If so, how, oh how, did Roberts refrain from saying "On a practical note, Senator, I understand that a large number of people find that lining one's hat with tinfoil disrupts the signals from those chips. Just something you might want to consider." Based on that alone, I think Roberts may be the most diplomatically gifted person in federal government service. I could not have contained myself half so well.

taxwonk 09-15-2005 02:35 PM

I don't get the bid deal.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Penske_Account
That's exactly it. Where is Ty to defend the relevancy of this photo?
The photo has no relevancy. I can't believe anybody's wasting time on it at all. It's a one-time throw-away line on TDS.

SlaveNoMore 09-15-2005 02:35 PM

I don't get the bid deal.
 
Quote:

baltassoc
You have no idea who that woman is or what she believes. She is to you a "piece of sub-human filth", a "ululating ... whore" and a "terror loving bee-yotch" because she is Palistinian, and for no other reason.

Fuck you, you racist piece of shit. You are not worthy of my contempt.
Actually, that photo of the woman is one typically used by media outlets when they point out that Palestinians celebrated in the streets of Gaza after the 9/11 WTC attacks.

So if calling someone like that a "piece of sub-human filth" makes Penske a racist piece of shit, I'm afraid then, that I am too. So sue me.

Penske_Account 09-15-2005 02:39 PM

I don't get the bid deal.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
She will be, after the people read this.

The real question is, if an election was held today, who would win - Bush or Blanco?
What race? Bush can't run for president again and I can see no reason why he would want to run for governor of Louisiana. That would be a huge step down.

Your post, as usual, is moronic.

taxwonk 09-15-2005 02:39 PM

Exclusionary Rule
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
Set up a system used by every other civilized country whereby if the cops infringe on your rights there is some way to receive compensation from the police or the government.

If the cops screw up, the victim of the crime should not be penalized. The idea that probative evidence would be thrown out really only punishes the victim and not the police.

England doesn't have the exclusionary rule yet I have never heard that defendants rights are abused all the time or that their system is completely unfair.

Our system does not put enough focus on the truth.
The victim isn't punished by the exclusionary rule. Our system of criminal justice is aimed at maintaining order and safeguarding the citizenry. I can think of only one system of justice currently practiced that is aimed at providing retribution for the benefit of the victim. That would be Shari'a.

futbol fan 09-15-2005 02:45 PM

Van, River
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
So sue me.
My lawyer keeps telling me I shouldn't bother because you're "judgment-proof." What does that mean?

Spanky 09-15-2005 02:45 PM

Exclusionary Rule
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
I wondered about that too. I'm all for punishments to the police for illegal searches, but it sounds like a fine that wouldn't really deter action -- it would just be a cost of doing business that would be absorbed by the market. If you really want to get a presumed perpetrator, why not do an illegal search to get evidence, if all you have to do is pay a fine?
Like many Americans you seem to forget there are other countries in the world. Other western nations seem to run fine without the exclusionary rule. Obviously the financial penalties do some good because there is no massive hue and cry against police abuse in Britain.

taxwonk 09-15-2005 02:45 PM

Exclusionary Rule
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
So, what you're saying is the only person who should benefit from the rule is the criminal. I, as a law abiding citizen, who might at some point be unlawfully searched, will get zero recompense.

With all rights we monetize past violations, because we can enjoin only future ones. In some cases this matters--for example, prior restraints on speech--but even then, you may be delayed in getting your message out (like Martha Burke, who missed the masters). In some cases it's express in the constitution--for example, the government can seize your property if it pays you. This extends to torts. I can't cut off your leg, but if I do, I have to pay you.

What you seem to be saying is that there is no amount of money damages that can adequately deter unlawful searches, such that the only way to deter them (and thus ensure the right is meaningful) is to let criminals go free. I think there is an amount of money damages. And, if a p.d. engages in a pattern of illegal searches, it would be relatively easy to bring a class action or something like it for injunctive relief commanding them to adhere to the law. Plaintiffs lawyers would start smelling the punis, and that police chief isout of town on a rail.
So does that mean that every time the police conduct an illegal search, I can sue them for depriving me of the right to feel safe and secure in my home and person?

Penske_Account 09-15-2005 02:46 PM

I don't get the bid deal.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by baltassoc
Given the context in which he posted the pictures - in a post about Palestian reactions to Israel's withdrawal - I think my misunderstanding was reasonable.

I therefore withdraw the particular inditement of Penske. However, his body of work on this board is ample evidence of the fact that he is still a racist piece of shit.
Byrd is your leader, not mine. You should look at the damage he does. I am not racist, I am against people who are against Freedom and infringe upon or incite or support others to infringe upon the freedoms of the peoples of the USA. That is across the board, regardless of race.

I am against ideologies that seek to destroy our way of life and our country, regardless of the race of the proponent.

Adam Gahan or whatever the American dude who threatened LA the other day is seemingly the same race as me. I put him in the same subhuman filth category as the ululating whore and the other palestinians who cheered 911.

Why do you support them?

taxwonk 09-15-2005 02:48 PM

Exclusionary Rule
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
You're forgetting what the right is, though. The right is not to avoid jail. The right is to be free of unreasonable searches and seizures.

The exclusionary rule is not a way to implement the right. Instead, it's a tool used to deter violations of the right.
That's why the exclusionary rule doesn;t result in the criminal going free. It results in the government being prohibited from using illegally obtained evidence.

Criminals can still be convicted without tainted evidence. It just makes the gov's job harder. By arguing that the rule automatically sets a criminal free, you are misstating the rule and the result.

Penske_Account 09-15-2005 02:49 PM

I don't get the bid deal.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by taxwonk
This from the king of the Clinton photoshops? Partisanship, much?
One is parody, one is serious. One is promulgated by poster on an internetr chat board, of no consequence to anything. The other is promulgated by the fourth estate for the purposes of news reporting.

I know you can see the difference here, I pray that you are a big enough person to acknowledge it publicly.

Spanky 09-15-2005 02:52 PM

Exclusionary Rule
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
I view constitutional rights differently. We're supposed to be free from illegal searches. That freedom means little if you're sitting in jail, whether or not the police pay a fine.
You are confusing the two issues. There is one issue of whether or not you did the crime. If you did the crime and you are sitting in jail what is the problem.

There other issue is the illegal search. You may have been damaged but the remedy should be declaring you innocent for a crime you actually did commit.

Like most members of our screwed up judicial system, the truth does not seem to matter to you.

Hank Chinaski 09-15-2005 02:54 PM

Exclusionary Rule
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
You are confusing the two issues. There is one issue of whether or not you did the crime. If you did the crime and you are sitting in jail what is the problem.

There other issue is the illegal search. You may have been damaged but the remedy should be declaring you innocent for a crime you actually did commit.

Like most members of our screwed up judicial system, the truth does not seem to matter to you.
Its clear he has never actually read the case. I'm not even sure his LS made people read the actual decisions. I think most of the third tier schools work from a commercial outline right from the start.

SlaveNoMore 09-15-2005 02:55 PM

Stay in Skool !!!
 
Quote:

ironweed
My lawyer keeps telling me I shouldn't bother because you're "judgment-proof." What does that mean?
Those narcotics forfeiture laws are a bitch.

Spanky 09-15-2005 02:55 PM

Exclusionary Rule
 
Quote:

Originally posted by taxwonk
I think the basis for the rule is the maxim from Blacksotne's Commentaries: better a hundred guilty men go free than one innocent man hang.
The exclusionary rule has nothing to do with guilt or innocence or guilty men going to jail. It is about excluding probative evidence. The less probative evidence there is the less likely the court is to issue the correct verdict.

Gattigap 09-15-2005 02:57 PM

Exclusionary Rule
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
Like many Americans you seem to forget there are other countries in the world. Other western nations seem to run fine without the exclusionary rule. Obviously the financial penalties do some good because there is no massive hue and cry against police abuse in Britain.
Look, if you want to so closely associate yourself with the Justice Kennedys of the world, that's certainly your prerogative, but we are entering the Age of the Tabla Rasa, my man. You'd better go stand over there with the sissified liberals and communists.

taxwonk 09-15-2005 02:59 PM

I don't get the bid deal.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Penske_Account
One is parody, one is serious. One is promulgated by poster on an internetr chat board, of no consequence to anything. The other is promulgated by the fourth estate for the purposes of news reporting.

I know you can see the difference here, I pray that you are a big enough person to acknowledge it publicly.
The photo is ridiculous to anyone of even moderate intelligence. In that regard it is on exactly the same level as your favorite graphic arts genre.

The only reaction to the Pottygate(tm) photo I have witnessed from my friends on the left is laughter and ridicule. The only outrage over the photo I have witnessed is from those on the right who want to characterize it as a witch hunt.

I hope whatever jackass of an editor decided to run it as a news item is out of a job today, or at least writing obits for the pet-lovers section of the Sunday inserts. But to treat it as a vicious stab by the VLWC is a bit of a reach, n'est'ce-pas?

Spanky 09-15-2005 03:00 PM

Exclusionary Rule
 
Quote:

Originally posted by taxwonk
The victim isn't punished by the exclusionary rule. Our system of criminal justice is aimed at maintaining order and safeguarding the citizenry. I can think of only one system of justice currently practiced that is aimed at providing retribution for the benefit of the victim. That would be Shari'a.

???? If a murderer or rapist or other felon gets to roam free when they are actually guilty because probative evidence is disallowed you don't think that punished the victim? What do the cops really care. The victim has much more of a stake in the perpetrator being punished than the cops do.

Spanky 09-15-2005 03:02 PM

Exclusionary Rule
 
Quote:

Originally posted by taxwonk
That's why the exclusionary rule doesn;t result in the criminal going free.
That may be the dumbest post I have ever read. I can't think of dumber one. If you don't think guilty people have walked where they would have been convicted if certain probative evidence wasn't disallowed, you are either insane, in denial, dishonest or incredibly dumb.

taxwonk 09-15-2005 03:03 PM

Exclusionary Rule
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
You are confusing the two issues. There is one issue of whether or not you did the crime. If you did the crime and you are sitting in jail what is the problem.

There other issue is the illegal search. You may have been damaged but the remedy should be declaring you innocent for a crime you actually did commit.

Like most members of our screwed up judicial system, the truth does not seem to matter to you.
You are actually the one confusing the issue here. As I noted above, the rule requires that illegally obtained evidence be excluded from a trial. If the police do their job adequately, the criiminal, if indeed he is guilty, should be convicted on the basis of other, legally obtained evidence. The remedy is not an award to the defendant. The remedy is an assurance to the People that their right to be secure in their homes and property is being protected. Any effect on the defendant is purely collateral.

And that's the truth that matters.


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