LawTalkers - Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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Adder

05-03-2017 03:44 PM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower (Post 507386)

Virtual cyber e-hugs only.

Solicited?? Ew.

SEC_Chick

05-03-2017 04:29 PM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 507366)

Yup. 100x.

One of my favorites from yesterday was Glenn Thrush's reaction to a speech in which Hillary said point blank that she accepted responsibility for the loss and discussed the many causes. He tweets four points, one of which was along the lines of "it's everyone's fault but hers", the exact opposite of what she said (but, of course, it's the Thrush's NYT's position, its everyone's fault but theirs).

Misogyny was the most looked up word in Webster's yesterday.

I love the perspective from Earth 2.

You must have seen a different interview than I did. She said she takes responsibility for the loss, but failed to attribute it in any way to her own campaign/strategy/staff. To "I was on the way to winning until the Russians and Comey interfered and speculation regarding collusion." was the gist of it.

She won the popular vote. It seems implausible to me that the Comey letter swung blue collar whites in three states enough to cost her the election, more than say, failure to even visit such state. Even more so given the testimony today that Weiner's computer did in fact have classified information on it that came from Hillary's server.

Adder

05-03-2017 05:44 PM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SEC_Chick (Post 507389)

She won the popular vote. It seems implausible to me that the Comey letter swung blue collar whites in three states enough to cost her the election

I'm not going to read it but Nate Silver did some analysis on that topic if you want to check it out. He concludes it probably did.

Quote:

more than say, failure to even visit such state

This is a fun talking point, but it's entirely post-hac. No one thought she needed to spend more time there before Nov. 9, and no one really thought, "I'd a voted for her if she'd have just come here."

Turns out those states were way closer than her team, and literally everyone else, thought. Hindsight is fun!

sebastian_dangerfield

05-03-2017 05:49 PM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower (Post 507382)

You supremely arrogant fuck. You seriously believe you have the omniscience and infallible wisdom to preach to fucking EVERYBODY about what their priorities and concerns should be? Hey mom who lost her gay son to anti-gay violence -- stop your incessant complaining, you are way down the priority chain. Black mom who lost her son to police violence -- good news, you're priority #2! The absolute crazy thing is that you actually pay lip service to how horrible it is that the elite intellectuals are always telling the masses how to think and what to care about. I'm not even going to comment on you relegating misogyny to a fringe problem in flyover land. That is more substantive response than this post deserves.

Here is your number one priority for this board -- bringing the funk. Skull Snaps. "Trespassin'." The Daily Dose:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QggRfHtFpw

I am being elitist. But my priorities are set by objective measures of importance.

I can't help it if you don't know what's best for you and would choose to organize your priorities in a manner that harms your interests over the long term. But I do know a big club of people who think like that, and anyone can join.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

05-03-2017 05:56 PM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 507390)

Actually, this was a serious debate during the campaign. Nail down the core states or expand the map. She chose an expand the map strategy and it was a mistake. Clearly, she closed in Pennsylvania, with the polling impact of the Comey situation they had an inkling of some movement there. But it was a key strategic mistake.

My view on all of these analyses of who is at fault for the outcome is to not listen to anyone who doesn't start by admitting they were a part of it. She passes that test and should be listened to. The list of people who don't pass that test is very very long, and starts with Bernie, the NY Times, and the Republican Party leadership.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

05-03-2017 05:57 PM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 507391)

I realize I never responded directly to you on this issue, and really should.

Fuck you.

That is all.

:)

Hank Chinaski

05-03-2017 06:17 PM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 507390)

Quote:

Turns out those states were way closer than her team, and literally everyone else, thought. Hindsight is fun!

Right! Only the polls that I posted said the race was a toss-up. But other than the main national polls, no one saw it coming. And by the way, Hil saw it the last week. President Obama and Hil were here almost every other day- same in Pa.

Hank Chinaski

05-03-2017 06:28 PM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower (Post 507382)

STFU dim- Long ago in a galaxy far away, a cat named Darth Vader (didn't wear tailored clothes, but had a certain flair) lost a thing called the Death Star..... TWICE. First time, he could hardly be blamed, but second time the thing was under construction. Rather than realizing that his every resource needed to be put into finishing the construction, he diverted a lot of his resources into chasing every rebel rat into every rat hole. And then the yet to be finished Death Star II got blown up. I don't know if he also diverted internet conversation to gender/race issues (actually he also had species issues to deal with, so he might have really gone far afield), but anyway, a Sebby-like focus on goal 1 might have saved the Empire, is all I'm saying.

sebastian_dangerfield

05-03-2017 06:31 PM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 507393)

I realize I never responded directly to you on this issue, and really should.

Fuck you.

That is all.

:)

When someone throws a hanging breaking ball like that, you simply can't avoid swinging.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

05-03-2017 06:42 PM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 507394)

Howard Stern did a half hour this A.M. on her. He said he kept calling her campaign. If she had gone on his show (he was a supporter) he felt she might have related more to people and it could have made a/the difference.

But I sort of agree her spending time here would have made no difference. Who goes to see a candidate except someone already supporting the candidate? I think they mean "spend more resources?"

Right! Only the polls that I posted said the race was a toss-up. But other than the main national polls, no one saw it coming. And by the way, Hil saw it the last week. President Obama and Hil were here almost every other day- same in Pa.

What earlier appearances may have contributed to is enthusiasm among the troops and ground game. The general rule of them way back in the distant old days when I was doing this stuff was that ground game could move the needle a percentage on your best day, but most of the time is just a battle to stay even because the other person has a ground game too (except Trump didn't).

could it have made a difference if she put 20 or 30 more staff in each state after the convention, had another bunch of little offices, revved up the troops a bit more, did a few favors for local politicos? Yeah, it could have. Would it have? no way to be sure.

Tyrone Slothrop

05-03-2017 07:16 PM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 507384)

Going off to think for a while.

About two minutes, apparently. NTTAWWT.

Tyrone Slothrop

05-03-2017 07:23 PM

These facts vindicate what I have always said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SEC_Chick (Post 507389)

It seems implausible to me that the Comey letter swung blue collar whites in three states enough to cost her the election, more than say, failure to even visit such state.

With such a narrow margin, it seems highly likely to me that many different things made enough of a difference to cost her the election, leaving all of us free to point to the one that best suits our priors and insist that it was the key factor.

eta: Sounds like David Axelrod agrees with you.

Hank Chinaski

05-03-2017 07:38 PM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 507397)

I know W's campaign realized it was about Ohio and Fla. And i know President Obama's campaign realized is was about social media. I assume Hil assumed Mich and Pa were safe blue. Trump's campaign had the insight to think they could change that?

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

05-03-2017 07:42 PM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 507400)

I think Trump was kind of surprised actually.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

05-03-2017 07:43 PM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 507398)

About two minutes, apparently. NTTAWWT.