Exclusionary Rule
 

Finally, you understand the effect of the rule. Now, let's see if we can get you to put your arms around the purpose.

I don't get the bid deal.
 

I accept that apology. Thanks Wonk, I knew you were a stand up guy.

I don't speak arabic.

I don't get the bid deal.
 

I already took responsibility for that stuff Byrd said years ago. If you've got something since yesterday, let's see it.

Absurdity
 

If you shoot my kid and I break into your house and find the gun you used to kill my kid it can be used in evidence in a trial. You can sue me for tresspassing and you can ask the District Attorney to prosecute me for breaking and entering but the gun can still be used as evidence. You will simply get the gun back that I stole after the trial.

If the police do an illegal search of the house and find the gun (by screwing up the warrant or something) then even if the gun is probative it cannot be used.

I find that ridiculous.

Exclusionary Rule
 

How? Is the victim less dead? Less raped? The victim has already been harmed. Once again, the criminal justice system is not about retribution. It is the means by which our society maintains social order and protects its citizens. It's purpose is not to provide an organized means for the victim to seek revenge.

Exclusionary Rule
 

How often does this happen?

Absurdity
 

I find it to be a check on the authority of the state. I thought you were for limited government?

Absurdity
 

We each have our pet causes around here.

Exclusionary Rule
 

Kind of like the collateral damage when you drop a nuclear bomb on a city to kill one person. Your method of trying to protect the defendents rights all prevents the court from making the appropriate verdict. Since important decisions are made by the criminal courts (decisions over life and death) your collateral damage can be very devastating to the community.

Exclusionary Rule
 

I didn't say that I don't think guilty people have walked because probative evidence was excluded, did I? I said that the exclusionary rule doesn't provide that the defendant shall be released.

It's not terribly persuasive to call me stupid because you can't grasp the difference between the rule and a collateral result. It's no wonder you left the law to become a real estate vulture. Things like subtlety and nuance are truly lost on you, aren't they?

Exclusionary Rule
 

So how does letting guilty rapists and murderes out on the streets help "maintain social order" and "protect its citizens".

Exclusionary Rule
 

If a defendant is being held based on certain evidence, and that evidence is then excluded because of an improper search, then the defendant is released.

In certain circumstances if a prosecutor is not allowed to use certain evidence then they can't go to trial and the criminal walks.

It is really not that complicated.

Exclusionary Rule
 

And it's really not that complicated to obtain evidence legally. Happens every day.

Absurdity
 

This post says it all. You claim to be a libertarian, but you have no understanding of libertarian principles. You are baffled by what is as clear as day to my nine-year old. Perhaps a trip to the Library for an elementary school text on civics might be in order?

Exclusionary Rule
 

The exclusionary rule is not aimed at protecting the defendant's rights. It's designed to safeguard the people's rights.

Exclusionary Rule
 

You said: "That's why the exclusionary rule doesn;t result in the criminal going free."

So like Ty you have contradicted yourself.

You said the exclusionary ruled doesn't result in the criminal going free. You didn't say that the exclusionary rule doesn't always result.......... Or most of the time. You said the exclusionary ruled DOESN'T result.

In certain circumstances it does. Your statement was wrong.

Exclusionary Rule
 

Then why are you having so much trouble understanding it?

Exclusionary Rule
 

A lot of what gets bounced was obtained in a bone fide attempts to get it legally. If you were a cop do you think you'd never make a mistake about what you see/find in a car. Or remember that old case about believing the warrent wasn't overbroad? The rule was intended to prevent abuse by throwing out anything that could come of abuse.

I don't know if the reasons apply to the mistakes as much.

Exclusionary Rule
 

No. The lack of sufficient legally obtained evidence is what results in guilty people going free, not the exclusionary rule.

You know, for a while, this was fun, like a cat toying with a mouse. But I tire of you. If you were a mouse, I'd eat you now.

Exclusionary Rule
 

The purpose it to protect people from illegal searches and seizures. But the rule doesn't accomplish that. Since the cops are not penalized for doing the illegal search and seizure the rule punishes the wrong people. You don't punish the cop but punish the citizens and the victims by letting a guilty person go free (in many cases).

Exclusionary Rule
 

I'm sympathetic in the case of honest error. But if we didn't have the rule, don't you think we'd see a lot more "honest errors"?

Exclusionary Rule
 

You have a valid point. And a lot of the 4th Amendment jurisprudence of the last 20 years has shifted toward drawing that distinction between behavior that is violative of the right to be free from an illegal search and mistakes. I think that there is still a need to further refine the balance. But I can't understand how anyone who understands civil liberties would favor eliminating the exclusionary rule in its entirety.

Exclusionary Rule
 

How many cases?

Exclusionary Rule
 

New Board Mizzle, fo' shizzle!

Exclusionary Rule
 

I understand your attraction to the concept of monetizing a penalty, but don't you think that the exclusionary rule ALSO penalizes cops?

It forces them to find separate incriminating evidence. If they are unable to do that, they've failed their job. Though not extracted from a detective's left pocket, this sounds like a penalty to me.

Absurdity
 

I never claimed to be a libertarian.

And no wonder you nine year older doesn't get it because his parent has gone through law school and doesn't get it.

I am worried about the government doing its job improperly. I don't mind it when the government does its job improperly. If the cops come in my house and beat me up I want to be able to sue them or prosecute them.

If the cops do an illegal search of my house and find nothing I have no recourse. I only have recourse if I am guilty of something and they find probative evidence. It is so screwed up.

The rule doesn't protect people from searches and seizures, it just benefits guilty people when they are subject to an illegal search and seizure.

Can you grasp that?

Absurdity
 

So like Ty, you have contradicted yourself.

Exclusionary Rule
 

One planet do you live on? You assume there is always more evidence. On planet earth there is a finite amount of evidence. Sometimes if certain evidence is excluded there is not enough legally obtainable evidence to convict the person.

Absurdity
 

Yes I did. I mistyped. It should have said I don't mind it when the goverment does its job properly I just mind it when it does its job improperly.

Exclusionary Rule
 

Doesn't seem to be a problem in England. If England can live without the exclusionary rule, why can't we?

Exclusionary Rule
 

You sound so haughty when you speak Gaelic

Exclusionary Rule
 

They are civil servants with secure positions. If they fail in their jobs we pay more than they do. We throw out a very important element to our system (determining the truth to get the right verditct) to inadequately protect another element to our legal system (protecting peoples rights).

Exclusionary Rule
 

As I recall, we fought a war not to live under English rules.

Benedict Arnoldist fuck.

Exclusionary Rule
 

Why did Nagin exclude the use of the buses from his evacuation plan? That exclusionary rule resulted in many thousands of deaths.

Exclusionary Rule
 

Why not punish the same way we punish individuals.

If you break into my house and find probative evidence I have recourse against you.

If the cops break into my house and find probtive evidence why shouldn't I have the same recourse against you.

Why should the only time I have recourse is when I am holding probative evidence that could be used to convict me of a crime.

Exclusionary Rule
 

He knew the federal plan said there would be planes. Where were the planes?

Exclusionary Rule
 

Individuals hold far less power than the state. Why hold prosecutors to a brd standard? Surely, that allows a guilty person to go free every once in a while. Why not get rid of it.

Exclusionary Rule
 

You can kiss my frosted lucky charms, boyo.

I don't get the bid deal.
 

Congratulations, Penske, but this is a very long-winded way to announce that you're switching your registration.

S_A_M

Exclusionary Rule
 

I don't know, ask Nagin, although I think they were right there in NO within his control per the state of Lousiana first responder plan:


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