Andrew Sullivan, about to jump ship
 

Yes, but you have it backwards in my opinion - Sidd and I have had this debate multiple times. I don't look at spending and then figure out how much we need to tax. I look at the "appropriate" level of tax and figure out how much we have to spend.

Conspiracy?
 

So Ty, did the unnamed "senior officials" that the unnamed source alleged authorized the prisoner abuse tell their underlings to pose for pics like this?

http://abcnews.go.com/media/World/im...040519_ssv.jpg
[SPREE - dead guy]

The guy in the picture is dead. Why would they authorize this?

Andrew Sullivan, about to jump ship
 

As a broad conceptual statement this doesn't make much sense to me. You set the tax rate at x based on some intrinsic appropriateness, and then fit spending under the functional income limits that that tax rate creates? What if the tax is too small to pay for the programs you want (and despite the dirty liberal word "programs" I do mean the stuff you want, like the Iraq project, and not the stuff Dems like me want, like free massages for welfare moms)? Are we stuck with deficits until the spending needs decrease on their own?

You seem to stand the notion of taxation on its head. We don't spend because we have to tax; we tax because we have to spend. Aside from that, in the absence of spending data how can you ever justify a tax that is not zer.....oh wait....I think I get you now...

Could Someone Please Tell the Iraqis Not to Fire Guns at Weddings . . .
 

Rudy and the 9/11 hearings etc....
 

Mixed about this stuff. As much as I respect the NYPD leadership the last few years, I know that emergency (immediate) disaster response in this country is largely a bad joke. Key to understanding what I'm saying is the word "disaster" as compared to the hundreds of thousands of ordinary emergencies in this country every day.

Anyway, rivalry between a big-city Police and Fire department is not unusual. The fact that NYC as of late has still not sorted out who would really be in charge the next time (or the fact that almost nobody in this country is qualified to be in charge of both firemen and law enforement simultaneously), is not exactly a setup for glowing reviews of yesterday's witnesses. A few of these arrogant motherfuckers deserve Lehman's criticism which (to me) is really directed at their petty BS rivalries.

This stuff came before Rudy, existed under Rudy and (way more shamefully) still exists today.

I have a close friend who is one step below the top-level of emergency response in one of America's largest cities (guess which one, e.g., Coltrane!). He's in an upper-level position at an agency that would coordinate first-line responses in a disaster. Not so long ago I asked him if his agency had ever done coordinated simulations on the Police and Fire plans in the event of a disaster on the scale of 9/11. His response? These plans (which would, by their very nature be voluminous and require intense familiarity at command levels) are on a need-to-know basis. Outside the FD, nobody needs to know. Outside the PD, nobody needs to know. Inside the FD and the PD, nobody really knows who knows, so nobody knows who to call, or who is in charge, when the big one hits.

Does the media in your city ever ask about the response plans for the next 9/11? If not, now would be a great moment to start the inquiries. Because I guarantee you, 95% of the 100 largest cities in this country, do not have a plan, and couldn't coordinate between two agencies if 3000 lives depended on it.

So today I say, kudos to former Secretary of the Navy Lehman. It takes quite a bit of nerve to call a spade a spade in the context the NYPD and the NYFD, but its the only way these important issues will ever be addressed in the cities who need to prepare for the next one.

And fuck Von Essen's horse too.

Hello

Rudy and the 9/11 hearings etc....
 

This kind of talk angers me. It is not only not true, but it is not productive.

Rudy and the 9/11 hearings etc....
 

The only intelligent response to the WTC would be to stand outside with loudspeakers saying "get the fuck out." The worst part is the guys who died going in to help. Its like how my firm gave everyone time to go donate blood 9/12-16. guess what? no need.

Rudy and the 9/11 hearings etc....
 

There is no way to prepare for the inconceivable. To try to blame the first responders when 400 of them died in their heroic attempts to save others is fucked up beyond repair.

The only people who deserve blame are the murderes and those who support them. Some of those who support them are American muslims, holding themselves out as the so called moderate muslims, who give money to these so called islamic charities knowing full well where the money is going. Your local mosque is filled with people who have given money to terrorists and are not naive about where the money is going.

Rudy and the 9/11 hearings etc....
 

In the "you should burn in hell or otherwise be punished" sense, I agree. But believe me sweetie, the word "inconcievable" does not belong anywhere near the lips or ears of a NYC fire or police commissioner. Nuke bomb? Conceivable. Earthquake? Conceivable. Big building burning and falling down? Conceivable. Its all conceivable.

As Hank noted, in hindsight, the best response might have includes a giant neon sign stating "get the fuck out of there via the X stairwell in the Y building or the Z stairwell in the A building". Its certainly not "do nothing because we never imagined this would happen"!

Here is a simple plan that all local agencies should have: How do you evacuate the entire downtown area as quickly as possible at 1:00 on a workday afternoon?

Do you want to know something that is (sort of) funny? NATO is right now working on these exercises at a military level. Don't ask. Do you think von Essen and the brass of all these agencies need to start doing the same, or should they just continue to think that such a scenario is "inconceivable".

Believe me, my friend has "conceived" of some of these scenarios. I think his answer is that nobody else can figure out how to address them, so they quit trying. If they can't make the soup, they should get out of the kitchen.

Rudy and the 9/11 hearings etc....
 

Do you know whats funny sweetie? If you knew the truth I know, you wouldn't even pretend to think things along the lines of what you wrote above. If Tom Clancy can sit around thinking up disaster scenarios, I guarantee you that the heads of local police and fire departments should be doing the same. Some of them are, in fact.

No Release of Oil Reserves
 

Is there a provision requiring the president to buy? It does not sound like there is. Therefore, it seems unlikely that there would be a provision about stopping buying. Also, it seems like some article or other would mention the fact that the president is required to buy, if that were a fact.

So, basically, you acted like something was a fact when you had no fucking clue.

Just like your kind.

woof!

No Release of Oil Reserves
 

Wait. you're saying he is a Ty sock?

No Release of Oil Reserves
 

It seems bushy to me, which would argue lhasa not chihuahua.

Intelligenter than you!
 

Andrew Sullivan, about to jump ship
 

As always a straightforward post. No subtext here.

Intelligenter than you!
 

you include boondocks-

http://www.co.oakland.mi.us/exec/ini.../economic.html

Oakland County is the 2nd wealthiest county in per capita income ($42,378) for counties over one million population in the U.S.

Intelligenter than you!
 

Hey Hank -- I lust for you more than I lust for any other male who posted on the politics board on lawtalkers.com after 8:00 am EDT and before 9:00 am EDT on May 20, 2004.

If you define it right, even the patently untrue can become plausible.

ETA Wow, hank, pitting your county's obviously self-serving website against a news site. That seems below even you.

Rudy and the 9/11 hearings etc....
 

How would you be able to evaluate the level of disaster-preparedness/emergency response in our major cities, as compared to, say, an ex-cop?

Why, because the terrorists read the Board, so we should not criticize our emergency response capability? Maybe we'll give them the idea to attack before we can improve our procedures and readiness? Well played, sir!

S_A_M

Andrew Sullivan, about to jump ship
 

Talk to David Stockman.

S_A_M

P.S. Your statement is so vague and overbroad as to be meaningless.

Intelligenter than you!
 

Before I forget, Pithacanthropus erectus called, he wants his brain capacity back.

Listen numbskull, I'm sure there are big areas with more $$, say the Kennedy estate for instance. Even Coltrane acknowledged the one county was some millionaire's playground in Wyoming or some fuck. I don't think the whole state of Wyoming has a million people. You guys, especially Ty, were explaining how we should be talking about cities not boondocks.

Maybe They're Looking for Those Oil for Food Documents
 

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/...ain/index.html

"U.S. Raids Chalabi's Compound"

No Release of Oil Reserves
 

There's not. There are statutory restrictions on when sales can be ordered.

But we ought to clarify one other thing. We're not "buying" oil for the reserve. Rather, we use "royalty-in-kind" payments of oil in lieu of paying federal royalties on extracted oil. While it takes the oil off the market, the government is not making actual cash payments.

Also, hte reserve is nearly full, so it's not like the "purchases" are taking too much out of the market.

a new thread!
 

I think you need to read a bit more carefully. When a discussion on what effects various religious beliefs might have on culture and development is ultimately met with the throw-away "well, now you're being racist" (or the religious equivalent), then that person calling "slur" has thrown the Hitler label, and surrenders. If a poster wants to call some subjects off-limits, that should be done before entering into the discussion.

The Floor is Open
 

So, you're expanding the "'Nazi" rule to cover express or implied allegations of racism?

Ok. I guess we should come up with a corrresponding list of words or phrases that conservatives are more likely to use which will cause them to automatically lose arguments.

For starters, I nominate the following:

(1) traitor
(2) unpatriotic
(3) aid and comfort to the enemy
(4) communist (when used as a slur)
(5) socialist (ditto)
(6) Clinton (when they are not the direct subject of the post)
(7) Waco (ditto)
(8) Ruby Ridge (ditto)
(9) murder marchers

Other nominations are welcome.

S_A_M


eta: These are later dubbed "Samuels", which I note only to facilitate use of the Search function.

Intelligenter than you!
 

Hey, you guys have the Ryder Cup this year! I'm sure the Republican xenophobes will give all of those none-UK europeans some good ol' backwater hecklin'! Freedom fries for everyone!

The Floor is Open
 

Can I get grandfathered on this one?

No Release of Oil Reserves
 

So it is free oil? Cool. Though, that seems implausible.

I thought club was saying we wanted to get to 1 billion barrels reserve in a few years and were at fewer than 700 million barrels? That seems not close to full, but maybe barrels are smaller than I think they are. like, thimbles or something.

The Floor is Open
 

I'm saying that each person has his or her own limits as to what intellectually vacuous approaches will trigger the end of participation. I found mine. You can use whatever floats your boat.

The Floor is Open
 

No, ass. And I was not participating with Ty in the urban argument. And NY, NY was on the list of top 10 in USA Today; that does not seem boondocky to me. Obnoxious, yes; boondocky, no.

Welcome to the Big Tent
 

Actually, Bush and his friends are more about finding ways to tax the wealthy less while shifting more of the burden to the poor and middle class in ways that can be more easily sold. That's why the Republicans are so eager to find a way to sell the so-called "flat tax" and consumption taxes. That way they pay less, the poor pay more, but nobody can point to higher rates to lay the blame.

Welcome to the Big Tent
 

that is so weird, because I could swear that to have a revenue-neutral flat tax, the flat tax rate would have to be higher than the lowest marginal rate. But I'm sure you are right. Because, well, you are you.

No Release of Oil Reserves
 

Yes "free." We forgo royalty revenues instead of paying.

We're at 660m barrels. Capacity is 700m barrels.

More here

The Floor is Open
 

Oh. I'm sorry that I was curt with you. You make some very valid points. Let's be friends.

No Release of Oil Reserves
 

OK.

Club, when you get in, please resolve the 1 billion versus 700 million issue. 40 million below where we want to be is a lot less than 340 million below where we want to be.

I would think it would be nice to get some royalties in to, you know, help pay for like that war-type thing (or whatever we are calling it right now). At least for a while. If we are only 40 million away from where we want to be instead of 340 million, then that seems doable.

Welcome to the Big Tent
 

I think you should read "nobody" to mean "people without a political voice," which it kind of does anyway.

The Floor is Open
 

Why would we want to be friends? Do you drive an SUV?

Welcome to the Big Tent
 

Well then why don't we just hike up the lowest marginal rate?

Welcome to the Big Tent
 

Because it's already quite high when you consider the loss of benefits from increased income. EITC, welfare, food stamps, medicaid, etc.

No Release of Oil Reserves
 

Tip: Click the link. Unless you want to trust club's Fox cites over my government sites cites.

Welcome to the Big Tent
 

You were saying that people who get such things really aren't anybody because they have no political voice. So who cares? Screw them. They should get better jobs.

ETKMPCD: I did click the link. I can draw a distinction between "current capacity" and "desired reserves." I'm sure we can pay Halliburton or some other Admin-related entity big bucks to store 300 million more barrels for us. And I hope to god you never ever cite to fox news.