Re: Football
 

Why did they throw in Vrabel too?

TM

Re: Football
 

Pioli was leaving. Cassell was leaving as a free agent. You don't think it's possible that Pioli and Belichick worked something out should Pioli end up outside the division?

TM

Re: Football
 

What I've read is that Vrabel is a terrific character guy whose physical skills are declining. If Pioli is trying to change the culture in KC, then maybe you bring in a guy like Vrabel to help.

Re: Football
 

Not concretely. Until a month ago (or so), Pioli was presumably working with Belichek on the Pats roster. So Pioli probably knew who was expendable/tradable, and clearly Cassel was (and Vrable as well), and Pioli called him up to say "hey, can we work something out?" once trade season opened. But Belicheck isn't stupid enough not to shop Cassel around to other teams as well to see what they could get for him

Re: Football
 

Word is they're going to go with Vandy LB Aaron Curry.

Re: Football
 

It's win-win. Pats would cut him to save cap space otherwise. Chiefs would be interested in him. Chiefs don't have to negotiate salary. Pats don't have Vrabel showing up with the Dolphins/Bills/Jets next year.

Re: Football
 

No. Question is, why does New England throw in Vrabel? You telling me KC wouldn't have made the trade for a second rounder straight up? Shouldn't New England have gotten more back?

TM

Re: Football
 

You're probably right. But I don't put anything past Belichick. People have been talking about Pioli for awhile, so I'm sure Belichick knew that he was gone with the right offer. If you don't think those two guys discussed trades Pioli would be willing to make with the teams they both thought were interested in him, then we just think about this stuff differently.

I think we would have heard about Belichick shopping Cassel around before he slapped him with the franchise tag. If you don't know for sure that you can get some value out of trading him (and the market for who could actually take him was quite limited), why would you franchise him? I think he wanted to make sure he got him out of the division, talked to Pioli about it, couldn't get a better offer from another team, so he sent him off to KC.

TM

Re: Football
 

That doesn't explain why they got no value whatsoever for him. He'll be starting in KC. KC got Cassel and a starting LB for a second round pick. Seems a little lop-sided to me.

TM

Re: Football
 

What Burger said. The Chiefs get Vrabel at his current salary; the Pats get him off their books and make sure he doesn't stay in the division. NE and KC don't play each other this year.

He has close to no value for NE, since Belichick presumably was going to get rid of him anyway. He probably has a higher salary than the average player at that position. Belichick is heartless about getting rid of veterans. KC has a less talented roster, so should have fewer problems accommodating his salary. Think of the trade as Cassel for the second-round pick, with NE giving KC Vrabel straight up.

Re: Football
 

I guess "worked out in advance" means different things to each of us. I'm sure Pioli and Belichek talked, and if they didn't it's because they already knew so much about each other's teams. I just doubt that Belicheck was doing Pioli favors once he left.

Re: Football
 

That only makes sense if no other team in the league wanted him (and that may be, can't say I know; but if he can start, I'm sure he's worth something to other teams in the league). And if he's of so little value to New England, why would they care if he went to another team in the division? Getting cut is going to turn him into a superstar whenever he faces New England?

TM

Winter Activities
 

So this afternoon, I went snowshoeing. WTF? How is it that much different from just trudging around in your boots? Don't get me wrong, it was a nice little jaunt on a sunny day, but I guess I'm missing the concept of snowshoes and what they add to my life.

Re: Football
 

Hard to say unless you know there was a better deal out there that the pats didn't take. As it was, they got a high 2d round pick instead of nothing, which is what they would otherwise have gotten if they didn't franchise him, ensured he's not with the Jets or another division rival, all for the cost of the relatively minor risk they would have to pay him in 2009 to warm the bench.

Re: Football
 

When you think about his value, you have to also think about his salary. I don't think his skills are gone, but aging linebackers have been having a rough time all over. And they want to keep him out of the division because he knows their system.