A Question of Divine Inspiration
 

Like one of the 20th century's most underrated philosophers noted, "Hell ain't a bad place to be..."

A Question of Divine Inspiration
 

I see better things from you.

A Question of Divine Inspiration
 

I just wanted an excuse to throw out a bizarre reference probably only Slave would recognize...

A Question of Divine Inspiration
 

On behalf of the Scott family, I thank you.

A Question of Divine Inspiration
 

What? No salute?

Sort of Politics Related.
 

I had this really fucking weird dream last night.

I'm standing in this giant Union Hall where Congressman Kucinich is giving a speech about waste in Government. He starts talking about all the money that is misspent. I'm standing in the back of the room listening, and, all of the sudden, he points at me, starts shouting, and mentions me by name as an example of how the Government wastes money.

All these heads turn around and look at me, and I'm just standing there dumbfounded, not saying a word, and everybody in the room starts booing me and throwing stuff.

Kucinich finishes his speech, to raucous applause, and I make my way quietly out a side door. He walks out another door along the same side of the building, and I yell out to him, "hold it right there, you little fucker!"

He sees me, and takes off running in the other direction. I walk over to this cop from the mounted police unit, who is standing near his horse, and very calmly ask the cop if I can borrow it. The cop hands me the reins, and I get on the horse and go tearing off after Kucinich, who takes off into the woods.

I follow him through the woods, and can hear him stumbling and running ahead of me. I catch up with him outside this mall, and get him cornered in this small area, and I start circling the horse around him. He's all muddy and scratched up from running through the woods. I get off the horse, grab him by the lapels, and slam him up against the wall, so that he smacks his head hard against it. He opens his mouth to say something, and I backhand him hard across the face.

I start yelling at him and telling him that I ever catch him using my name in a speech again, I will kick his ignorant ass.

I wake myself up muttering a stream of profanity.

I have no idea what any of this means. . .

Time to move, Penske.
 

The Bush Administration is making you and your neighbors safe in from harm in the mold of Michael Brown.

From a TNR piece (reg requ'd) examining various Bush appointees:

John Pennington
Director, Region Ten, Federal Emergency Management Agency

http://www.tnr.com/graphics2004.1/20...pennington.jpg

• The Pacific Northwest is a catastrophe-prone area-- from tsunamis and volcanic eruptions in Washington and Oregon to wildfires in Idaho and oil pipeline ruptures in Alaska. That's why former Washington Representative Jennifer Dunn knew that fema needed "a natural" to head its disaster response efforts in the region. And that's exactly what Dunn said she found in 38-year-old John Pennington. Pennington would have to be a natural, given his utter lack of disaster-relief experience. A former state representative who ran a coffee business with his wife in rural Washington, Pennington served as Cowlitz County co-chairman of the Bush campaign in 2000. Dunn, who had been the Bush campaign's state chairperson, approached Pennington about the fema post, to which he was appointed in 2001. Alas, in the wake of former fema Director Michael Brown's resignation, Pennington's disaster of a resumé has come under increasing scrutiny. Last month, The Seattle Times reported that, just before he was appointed to his fema post, Pennington received his bachelor's degree from an unaccredited California correspondence school that federal investigators later described as a "diploma mill." Pennington's defenders have responded to questions about his qualifications by arguing that he has surrounded himself with competent staff.

Sort of Politics Related.
 

Sounds really real. Realistic. did you wake up in a puddle?

Sort of Politics Related.
 

Yeah. I told your wife to use a towel, but the bitch didn't listen.

Time to move, Penske.
 

A leader leads, directs and delegates. A good CEO is not a micromanager. The dimwits don't get this, which is why there CEO candidates rarely make it the White House.

I am, in fact, acquainted with Mr. Pennington and I would say he is highly qualified. I will however pass along your defamatory for him to respond to appropriately, as he may.

Sort of Politics Related.
 

That softball was a Columbus Day gift to you. No need to gratzie moi. Prego.

Time to move, Penske.
 

How so? It seems the ST has made a prima facie case he is not qualified, based on the diploma mill certificate, lack of government experience, his coffee slinging background, and the fact that his defenders argue not that he is in fact qualified, but that he hires people who could potentially cover his ass. Not to mention the numerous examples that have come to light recently of Bush administration cronyism and in light of the Harriet Miers' nomination.

Oh, and can we see the resumes of his competent staff too?

Differing Concepts of Justice and Freedom
 

On the same theory that you use with Hitler, how can you say that Stalin truly believed that the needs of the many outweighed the needs of the few?

He murdered millions upon millions, as you note, deported and enslaved millions more, all in the service of consolidating and preserving the power which flowed to: (A) himself; and (B) a relatively tiny elite within the Communist Party (which itself was a minority in the Soviet Union).

Those are not the actions of a man who believes that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

Those are the actions of a man who believes that individuals, their lives, self-determination, etc. have no value -- which may be what you were getting at -- but it is not the same thing.

"The State" does not equal "the many" -- especially in the old Soviet Union -- as I'd think a small government conservative should appreciate.

S_A_M

Differing Concepts of Justice and Freedom
 

Exactly my point.

S_A_M

A Question of Divine Inspiration
 

No. I suppose not.

Also, I said nothing about moral relativism, so put that stalking horse in the barn.

I am claiming that "liv[ing] up to a certain standard of babjesian morality" as you put it involves being "Christ-like" in one's everyday life, philosophy, and dealings with one's fellow humans.

In my view, that seems to imply much more tolerance, openess, understanding, and love for one's fellow man (of all stripes) than the folks at (say) the Southern Baptist Convention or the politically-active religious right seem able to muster. (ATISWWT)

I think they hit the Old Testement way too hard.

S_A_M

Differing Concepts of Justice and Freedom
 

Apparently, you right-wingers spend much more time with MoveOn and the DU than us "Liberals" do.

God Bless You.

S_A_M

Differing Concepts of Justice and Freedom
 

I'm not sure that the statement was very Christlike, Penske.

S_A_M

Sort of Politics Related.
 

Dude, the Indians choked when it counted. Get over it.

aV

Differing Concepts of Justice and Freedom
 

Disagree. I think he was a True Believer, and the two theses you list are compatible, if you substitute "less value than the preservation of, and service to, humanity" for "no value."

Differing Concepts of Justice and Freedom
 

Perhaps so -- no way to know.

I've always thought of Stalin as an opportunist as opposed to being particularly principled.

I suppose they are compatible as amended.

S_A_M

Time to move, Penske.
 

What is ST's experience to make such judgments?

Why, what gives you oversight? It's my understanding that is performance has been uniformly sound and commendable, I will let him address your defamation as he will in due course.

A Question of Divine Inspiration
 

They are very tolerant in empowering the sinful and dimwitted to accept the babyjesi in their lifes.

Differing Concepts of Justice and Freedom
 

Exactly, and perhaps you should pay more attention to what the leaders of your political party are doing and saying. Blind faith is a sad testament to the rank and file lemmings participation in the system.

Differing Concepts of Justice and Freedom
 

I invite the haters, biased and intolerant to change their ways and accept a babyjesian way. I don't applaud intolerance, bias or hate and give it aid or comfort. Hate the sin, love the sinner.

Time to move, Penske.
 

Oooh, I'm quaking in my wingtips. Let me know if he needs my contact info.

What gives me oversight? The line on my paycheck that reads "Federal income tax" is all the oversight authorization I need.

I don't count on the ST to make judgements. AFAICT, all they are doing is investigative journalism. I'll make my own decisions, based on all the facts (of which his performance would be one factor). You'll forgive me if I don't take your word for the latter.

Time to move, Penske.
 

Dude, Penske *knows* the guy.

Knows his heart.

Trust him, it's a good choice.

Time to move, Penske.
 

True, but I need to know - has he looked into his eyes, and seen his soul? Is it a good soul? A soul that loves freedom, and hates tyranny? And is he confident that 20 years from now, his soul will still be the same?

Differing Concepts of Justice and Freedom
 

Yes, but he was really only talking about the leaders of the Dem party.

Differing Concepts of Justice and Freedom
 

sometimes I think you too harsh. Remember, the highest political office any Democrat is likely to hold in the next 10-20 years is Executive Producer of the West Wing. Given that, they can get lax. With the Rep. power comes responsibility.

Differing Concepts of Justice and Freedom
 

You are talking like you are part of the deluded left that at first embraced Stalin and then when they realized how horrible things went you tried to argue that what happaned was because Stalin was insane and deluded and what happened was not the logical extension of the communist philosophy.

Someone like Stalin does not stay in power for as long as he did without a signficant portion of the people underneath him believing in the philosophy of what he is doing. Everything he did could be justified as part of his communist philosophy.

Stalin took a backward rural national and turned it into an industrial power house. His country was wiped out during WWII and yet he turned it into one the most advanced and industrialized economies in the world.

He just had to slaughter twenty percent of the population to do it. But the other eighty percent ended up with a much higher standard of living.

The needs of the many outweight the needs of the few.

Time to move, Penske.
 

What difference would it make, you wouldn't know what that looks like.

Differing Concepts of Justice and Freedom
 

True. We anxiously await the first exercise of same.

Differing Concepts of Justice and Freedom
 

I am barely tuned into this discussion (when did the "P" in "PB" come to stand for Philosophy?), but this statement caught my eye.



Would you say the same about Saddam Hussein? Qaddafi? Castro?


Under your neo-con philosophy, assuming we could have invaded the USSR without triggering a nuclear war, would we have been justified in doing so to prevent the carnage that Stalin wreaked? Should we have told Patton to go for it, back in '45?

Time to move, Penske.
 

True. As a Dem (assuming he is), it is inconceivable that SHP would ever have met anyone who loves freedom and hates tyranny.


Ah, Monday morning..... reading Penske's posts, and the smell of asshole is in the air.

Differing Concepts of Justice and Freedom
 

No, actually I wasn't. Re-read the original post S_A_M responded to. Why when I don't direct comments to you do you internalise and personalise them and when I do you blatantly lie or otherwise distort where I am directing them?????????????

The comment was directed at the contant and explicit personal invective, hate, bias and intolerance that is directed personally and explicitly at me, based solely on my articulation of ideas and political philosophy. While this is not unlike what I see from a lot of people on the left these days with their guiding mantra of "W is Stupid and everyone who voted for him is a christian wacko freak" (which inherently is hateful, biased and intolerant, characterisitics that the left claim to eschew, although there must be a special secret exception for W and his followers, much like the sex exception to the perjury laws), I am in no way blaming the whole of left wing for these PoPD attacks, but rather only those actually culpable.

Differing Concepts of Justice and Freedom
 

So, the DU and MoveOn are populated by the "leaders" of the Democratic Party? ::Snort::

Oh yeah, I can just see Bill and Hillary, and TK, and Donna Brazile, and Dean, and the 22 governors, etc. down in their basements typing away at their keyboards.

I would have thought there would be some photos of these leaders at the rallies . . .

S_A_M

:rolleyes:

Differing Concepts of Justice and Freedom
 

You are talking like a member of the indoctrinated right that first believed Stalin was the embodiment of Capital C Communism that had to be defeated as an all-encompassing ideology and to be justified required subservience by the masses to the works of Karl Marx but also ignores the possibility that much of the people's subservience was possibly obtained not so much by ideology as by the crushing rule of a totalitarian regime focused on preserving its existence, which may be analogous in some ways to Baathist rule, which we'll leave aside for the moment because of potentially uncomfortable parallells to finding yourself arguing that some Iraqis actually bought in to Baathist ideology, such as it was, and didn't actually starve from the thirst for freedom that they would've seized years ago but for the iron hand of the Evil Fucker Saddam.

Differing Concepts of Justice and Freedom
 

I can lend you time machine, and you go back to the start of the Afghan war. That was the first exercise of the same in this century.

And your boys in the demo establishment are doing a great job with West Wing. Lots of new energy in the plots.

Time to move, Penske.
 

Maybe that is the aroma of your upper lip that you are sensing.

I don't know what SHP is, but judging by his posts here, it is irrelevant whether he has met someone who loves freedom and hates tyrrany, the point is he wouldn't be able to recognize such a person, unless he was looking for his polar opposite.

Differing Concepts of Justice and Freedom
 

Moveon and the DU do their advance work. And are claiming that Moveon and Michael Moore didn't provide coordinated assistance to the Kerry campaign? Please let's not be so naive here.