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LessinSF 01-05-2011 03:16 PM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) (Post 442381)
Really? I read it as Reinhardt being pissed that a district court ruling he surely likes will have to be dismissed for lack of standing at the appellate level so that it cannot be given broader application outside California.

I'll wait for Atticus to weigh in, but whom exactly were they supposed to sue other than state officials, when only state officials are charged with implementing the law? They could sue Atticus's kids, but wouldn't they have been dismissed as defendants for not being proper defendants?

It seems like the strategy was entirely explicable--they knew that the state wasn't going to defend the law so you sue the defendants that you know are going to lie down anyway.

I agree, sort of. If Boies and Olson view their clients as gays in California, they took an approach more likely to assure them a victory.

Secret_Agent_Man 01-05-2011 03:39 PM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LessinSF (Post 441877)
Wholly disagree. First, the attorney that said she knew it was privileged but did nothing, violated established CA law that she had to notify and return the inadvertently disclosed information. Second, they lie. They are attorneys. Even the taint equals stink. And that story made G&R stink.

2.

"I realized it was probably privileged, but . . . did nothing" because it was no big deal, but some information derived from the privileged communications ended up in the Complaint.

Bad, bad, bad.

S_A_M

taxwonk 01-06-2011 03:27 PM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) (Post 442381)
Really? I read it as Reinhardt being pissed that a district court ruling he surely likes will have to be dismissed for lack of standing at the appellate level so that it cannot be given broader application outside California.

I'll wait for Atticus to weigh in, but whom exactly were they supposed to sue other than state officials, when only state officials are charged with implementing the law? They could sue Atticus's kids, but wouldn't they have been dismissed as defendants for not being proper defendants?

It seems like the strategy was entirely explicable--they knew that the state wasn't going to defend the law so you sue the defendants that you know are going to lie down anyway.

Why not seek a writ of mandamus to require the government officials to take action on the state's behalf?

I ask this question blissfully unburdened by any of the facts surrounding the controversy.

Atticus Grinch 01-06-2011 06:26 PM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) (Post 442381)
Really? I read it as Reinhardt being pissed that a district court ruling he surely likes will have to be dismissed for lack of standing at the appellate level so that it cannot be given broader application outside California.

I'll wait for Atticus to weigh in, but whom exactly were they supposed to sue other than state officials, when only state officials are charged with implementing the law? They could sue Atticus's kids, but wouldn't they have been dismissed as defendants for not being proper defendants?

It seems like the strategy was entirely explicable--they knew that the state wasn't going to defend the law so you sue the defendants that you know are going to lie down anyway.

"Waaah! I'm Steven Reinhardt, and I wish everyone would litigate their cases in the specific manner that minimizes the power of the legislative and executive branches, and makes the judicial branch the ultimate decider of all controversies of our time! Waaah!"

As for a writ of mandate, there are all kinds of abstention doctrines that make it hard to go to a federal court to order a state official to do a particular thing. There are allowances for state court writs in California law, but these also show respect for the idea that judges decide things after they happen and are very bad at directing things to happen -- something Reinhardt apparently missed in judge school. But the plaintiffs here were in federal court and can't rely upon the Cal. Code Civ. Proc. sections on trial court writ practice.

Hank Chinaski 01-06-2011 08:16 PM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Secret_Agent_Man (Post 442403)
2.

"I realized it was probably privileged, but . . . did nothing" because it was no big deal, but some information derived from the privileged communications ended up in the Complaint.

Bad, bad, bad.

S_A_M

hmmm, could simply be bad dep prep. the one smoking gun is whatever caused them to know the date of the meeting. if they actually used the email, that's bad.

and PS, color me bad but when someone inadvertently discloses priv. shit I think the duty is on the discloser to find out and raise it. most protective orders I've seen do not put a burden on disclosee to look careful to make sure it's okay to keep.

Hank Chinaski 01-06-2011 08:19 PM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch (Post 442699)
"Waaah! I'm Steven Reinhardt, and I wish everyone would litigate their cases in the specific manner that minimizes the power of the legislative and executive branches, and makes the judicial branch the ultimate decider of all controversies of our time! Waaah!"

As for a writ of mandate, there are all kinds of abstention doctrines that make it hard to go to a federal court to order a state official to do a particular thing. There are allowances for state court writs in California law, but these also show respect for the idea that judges decide things after they happen and are very bad at directing things to happen -- something Reinhardt apparently missed in judge school. But the plaintiffs here were in federal court and can't rely upon the Cal. Code Civ. Proc. sections on trial court writ practice.

since that all took place under DADT didn't the Ps have a duty to STFU anyways, or they lose standing or something?

Adder 01-06-2011 08:23 PM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 442723)
and PS, color me bad but when someone inadvertently discloses priv. shit I think the duty is on the discloser to find out and raise it. most protective orders I've seen do not put a burden on disclosee to look careful to make sure it's okay to keep.

The ethical rules of the jurisdiction in question may reverse that burden though.

At this point, I have a hard time keeping MN, WI, DC and NY straight, but at least one of them has such a rule.

Penske 2.0 01-06-2011 11:08 PM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 442728)
At this point, I have a hard time keeping MN, WI, DC and NY straight, .

That's too many bars to have. Obvious of sign of overcompensation for a small penis, no offence; which explains other issues. Hank takes Extenze. Talk to him. :)

Adder 01-06-2011 11:25 PM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Penske 2.0 (Post 442755)
That's too many bars to have. Obvious of sign of overcompensation for a small penis, no offence; which explains other issues. Hank takes Extenze. Talk to him. :)

I'm not a member of the WI bar, or yet MN, but I recent went to a CLE that covered this issue for both states.

Also, I have a tiny pecker.

Penske 2.0 01-06-2011 11:50 PM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 442759)
I'm not a member of the WI bar, or yet MN, but I recent went to a CLE that covered this issue for both states.


Oh, carry on then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 442759)

Also, I have a tiny pecker.

I know. Hank told me. :o

LessinSF 01-07-2011 03:26 PM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 442723)
and PS, color me bad but when someone inadvertently discloses priv. shit I think the duty is on the discloser to find out and raise it. most protective orders I've seen do not put a burden on disclosee to look careful to make sure it's okay to keep.

You too can have a Court kick you off a case:
Quote:

For cases following State Fund, HN18there is an ethical duty immediately to disclose inadvertently received privileged information. More precisely, an attorney who inadvertently receives plainly privileged documents must refrain from examining the materials any more than is necessary to determine that they are privileged, and must immediately notify the sender, who may not necessarily be the opposing party, that he is in possession of potentially privileged documents.

Rico v. Mitsubishi Motors Corp., 116 Cal. App. 4th 51, 69 (Cal. App. 4th Dist. 2004)

Sidd Finch 01-07-2011 04:50 PM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LessinSF (Post 442900)
You too can have a Court kick you off a case:

Can someone ask Hank if MI actually has no law about this? I'm actually curious, and he has me on ignore.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 01-07-2011 06:16 PM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch (Post 442944)
Can someone ask Hank if MI actually has no law about this? I'm actually curious, and he has me on ignore.

Well, I'll quote you. Even though he "put" me on ignore at the same time as he put you on, I think he must have been drinking and mistyped, because every time I post he won't shut up.

Hank Chinaski 01-07-2011 07:09 PM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch (Post 442944)
Can someone ask Hank if MI actually has no law about this? I'm actually curious, and he has me on ignore.

I'm a mod. Ignore is more a restraint thing. Other than being sworn in I've never worked in state court. I assume 6th circuit rules would apply in the mi part of my docket but of course my practice is national in scope.

LessinSF 01-07-2011 07:38 PM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 442968)
I'm a mod. Ignore is more a restraint thing. Other than being sworn in I've never worked in state court. I assume 6th circuit rules would apply in the mi part of my docket but of course my practice is national in scope.

Wrong. You are governed by the MI rules of professional conduct.

Hank Chinaski 01-07-2011 08:03 PM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LessinSF (Post 442969)
Wrong. You are governed by the MI rules of professional conduct.

I thought u meant court rules. I was grandfathered out of the ethics rules.

addendumb:

in patents the D will often waive the ACP and hand over opinions as part of its defense, so it isn't such a weird thing to see stuff you might not have expected to see.

the one time I saw something I "knew" I shouldn't I sent an email to OC and he told me it was something they had sent my client as part of a settlement attempt.

more egg on my face than anytime since that Tuesday night I convinced Atticus's sister it was okay for us to date during her period.

LessinSF 01-08-2011 03:01 AM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 442972)
I thought u meant court rules. I was grandfathered out of the ethics rules.

addendumb:

in patents the D will often waive the ACP and hand over opinions as part of its defense, so it isn't such a weird thing to see stuff you might not have expected to see.

the one time I saw something I "knew" I shouldn't I sent an email to OC and he told me it was something they had sent my client as part of a settlement attempt.

more egg on my face than anytime since that Tuesday night I convinced Atticus's sister it was okay for us to date during her period.

And the wait for whether MI has addressed this issue continues.

Hank Chinaski 01-08-2011 04:07 PM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LessinSF (Post 442988)
And the wait for whether MI has addressed this issue continues.

questioning someone's legal ethics is libel per se IIRC.

Penske 2.0 01-08-2011 05:29 PM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 442997)
questioning someone's legal ethics is libel per se IIRC.

I skipped ethics in LS and just went with the answer that made the least sense to me on the multi-state ; so I'm not sure if that is true, but, if it is, some h8ers here may want to go back and edit some posts....:(:(

Hank Chinaski 01-08-2011 06:15 PM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Penske 2.0 (Post 443000)
I skipped ethics in LS and just went with the answer that made the least sense to me on the multi-state ; so I'm not sure if that is true, but, if it is, some h8ers here may want to go back and edit some posts....:(:(

Some of them show behavior that is unethical per se (eg deleting political commentary) and truth is a defense so I'm comfortable with my actions- I sleep soundly thank you very much.

Hank Chinaski 01-08-2011 07:37 PM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Penske 2.0 (Post 443000)
I skipped ethics in LS and just went with the answer that made the least sense to me on the multi-state ; so I'm not sure if that is true, but, if it is, some h8ers here may want to go back and edit some posts....:(:(

i don't normally respond to the same post twice- but you might be interested to know, as a historical fact- probably a bit out of date- but saying a married lady has sex outside of marriage was once libel per se too, again maybe not true anymore, probably not an issue anymore,

Atticus Grinch 01-08-2011 08:48 PM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 443002)
i don't normally respond to the same post twice- but you might be interested to know, as a historical fact- probably a bit out of date- but saying a married lady has sex outside of marriage was once libel per se too, again maybe not true anymore, probably not an issue anymore,

AON, I'll consider it a milestone when a state appellate court overturns a defamation verdict on the ground that alleging that someone is gay is simply not defamatory because it does not tend to harm the reputation of the plaintiff.

Fugee 01-08-2011 08:48 PM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 443002)
you might be interested to know, as a historical fact- probably a bit out of date- but saying a married lady has sex outside of marriage was once libel per se too, again maybe not true anymore, probably not an issue anymore,

It's especially not an issue if truth is a defense. :eek:

Adder 01-08-2011 09:05 PM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch (Post 443004)
AON, I'll consider it a milestone when a state appellate court overturns a defamation verdict on the ground that alleging that someone is gay is simply not defamatory because it does not tend to harm the reputation of the plaintiff.

You mean 'cause yer gay?

Atticus Grinch 01-09-2011 02:51 AM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 443006)
You mean 'cause yer gay?

Oooh, burn.

Penske 2.0 01-09-2011 03:01 AM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fugee (Post 443005)
It's especially not an issue if truth is a defense. :eek:

Thanks. :):):D

Hank Chinaski 01-09-2011 11:46 AM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fugee (Post 443005)
It's especially not an issue if truth is a defense. :eek:

Q: how many Penske's does it take to have sex with a married lady?
A: no one knows. so far no identified penske has been willing to fulfill the condition precedent of telling his doctor he need a Viagra Rx:(:(

Penske 2.0 01-09-2011 01:50 PM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 443013)
Q: how many Penske's does it take to have sex with a married lady?
A: no one knows. so far no identified penske has been willing to fulfill the condition precedent of telling his doctor he need a Viagra Rx:(:(

When I could regularly knock off sub-5 miles I had no need for performance enhancing drugs, same assessment with Viagra. As much as I enjoy excess, there probably can be too much of a good thing. :D

Hank Chinaski 01-09-2011 04:19 PM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Penske 2.0 (Post 443022)
When I could regularly knock off sub-5 miles I had no need for performance enhancing drugs, same assessment with Viagra. As much as I enjoy excess, there probably can be too much of a good thing. :D

my wife said to tell you she thinks you're sub 2 minutes:confused::confused:

can someone decode this?

Penske 2.0 01-09-2011 05:42 PM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 443026)
my wife said to tell you she thinks you're sub 2 minutes:confused::confused:

?

A gentleman doesn't kiss and tell; however, at least your last post clears up the spurious libel issue. Thanks.

Penske 2.0 01-09-2011 05:45 PM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 443026)
my wife said to tell you she thinks you're sub 2 minutes:confused::confused:

can someone decode this?

I don't normally respond to the same post twice, but in this case I will make an exception...

I have a layover, npi, at the DET airport tomorrow...53 mins....ask her if she wants to meet me for 25 go rounds and a drink....;):o:)

Fugee 01-09-2011 06:03 PM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Penske 2.0 (Post 443030)
I don't normally respond to the same post twice, but in this case I will make an exception...

I have a layover, npi, at the DET airport tomorrow...53 mins....ask her if she wants to meet me for 25 go rounds and a drink....;):o:)

You're bringing 24 other fast shooters?

Penske 2.0 01-09-2011 07:59 PM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fugee (Post 443031)
You're bringing 24 other fast shooters?

Putting aside whether the bare allegation of infidelity is libelous, implying someone might be down, npi, for a 25 guy gangbang is cerrtainly a bit further along the scale, unless we are talking about a porn star.......:o

Hank Chinaski 01-09-2011 08:04 PM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Penske 2.0 (Post 443035)
Putting aside whether the bare allegation of infidelity is libelous, implying someone might be down, npi, for a 25 guy gangbang is cerrtainly a bit further along the scale, unless we are talking about a porn star.......:o

2. we're getting close to I need a paycheck for that.

Penske 2.0 01-09-2011 08:11 PM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 443036)
2. we're getting close to I need a paycheck for that.

2. You're welcome in advance :D

taxwonk 01-09-2011 10:37 PM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 443006)
You mean 'cause yer gay?

Shame on you.

Fugee 01-09-2011 11:17 PM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Penske 2.0 (Post 443035)
Putting aside whether the bare allegation of infidelity is libelous, implying someone might be down, npi, for a 25 guy gangbang is cerrtainly a bit further along the scale, unless we are talking about a porn star.......:o

I have no idea whether Mrs. Hank would be up for that. But it'd be the only way you could offer her that many go rounds -- unless "go rounds" is code for something that doesn't involve any kind of performance on your part. ;)

Adder 01-09-2011 11:17 PM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by taxwonk (Post 443047)
Shame on you.

I see sarcasm is lost within 24 hours or so.

Penske 2.0 01-10-2011 06:09 PM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 443049)
I see sarcasm is lost within 24 hours or so.

Perhaps he just don't like your joke.....:(

LessinSF 01-13-2011 04:22 PM

Don't Let Your Clients E-Mail You
 
Seriously. It may not be privileged if they use their work computer - http://calapp.blogspot.com/2011/01/h...nt-co-cal.html

ETA: The more I think about this, this more wrong it seems. That said, I think diligent representation of my clients now requires me to demand all e-mails between the other side and their counsel, along with the office policy on the use of the computers on which those e-mails were sent or received.


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