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-   -   We are all Slave now. (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=882)

sebastian_dangerfield 05-30-2018 05:18 PM
Re: another level of Hell
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 515352)
Right. An academic exercise. The point of the post isn't to accuse you of racism or even to point out what you're doing here. It's to let you know that this is the thought process that almost every white person I come into contact with whenever there is a discussion on race goes through. "But he could have meant..." "I'm sure she didn't mean..." "It could be read like this..." "If you stand on your head and read it with one eye closed..." etfuckingcetera.

TM
I would not disagree with any of this. I have been guilty of this (partly because I am white, partly because I am an asshole who will argue almost anything).

The most salient point of what wrote would be this... In this instance, there is no alternative interpretation. I don’t care how much one tortures context, there’s only one way to take what Roseanne wrote. It could be said she wrote the most perfectly racist tweet that could be written. Any person trying to spin it will run smack into a brick wall.

I’ve a queer interest in language. It’s really hard to say something that can’t be taken in a manner slightly askew of what you meant. It’s almost always possible to bend words to some at least moderate perversion of their clear intent. But not in this instance.

This was rare, undilluted racism. If you hear a white person trying to defend or excuse this, you should get the hell away from him. He’s dangerously dumb or nuts... most likely both.

ThurgreedMarshall 05-30-2018 05:49 PM
I'm hoping...
 
...the Facebook page that I took this from isn't The White House Press Secretary's official fucking page. But even if it's not, how sad is it that we are in a place where it's way more likely than not that it is?

"Sarah Huckabee Sanders
11 hrs ·
If Roseanne is interested in working in the White House, the President will make sure she has a place here. He remains her biggest fan, because she’s not afraid to say what real Americans are thinking."

TM

Pretty Little Flower 05-30-2018 05:53 PM
Re: another level of Hell
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 515354)
I would not disagree with any of this. I have been guilty of this (partly because I am white, partly because I am an asshole who will argue almost anything).

The most salient point of what wrote would be this... In this instance, there is no alternative interpretation. I don’t care how much one tortures context, there’s only one way to take what Roseanne wrote. It could be said she wrote the most perfectly racist tweet that could be written. Any person trying to spin it will run smack into a brick wall.

I’ve a queer interest in language. It’s really hard to say something that can’t be taken in a manner slightly askew of what you meant. It’s almost always possible to bend words to some at least moderate perversion of their clear intent. But not in this instance.

This was rare, undilluted racism. If you hear a white person trying to defend or excuse this, you should get the hell away from him. He’s dangerously dumb or nuts... most likely both.
https://twitter.com/TedNugent/status...25988612698112

Hank Chinaski 05-30-2018 06:05 PM
Re: I'm hoping...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 515355)
...the Facebook page that I took this from isn't The White House Press Secretary's official fucking page. But even if it's not, how sad is it that we are in a place where it's way more likely than not that it is?

"Sarah Huckabee Sanders
11 hrs ·
If Roseanne is interested in working in the White House, the President will make sure she has a place here. He remains her biggest fan, because she’s not afraid to say what real Americans are thinking."

TM
When I saw that on FB I tried to find it as original, but google Would only find her saying “no comment, the president has more important stuff” etc. it is very sad there is even the chance that isn’t made up so that I felt I needed to look. But did you find it as accurate somewhere?

ThurgreedMarshall 05-30-2018 06:19 PM
Re: I'm hoping...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 515357)
When I saw that on FB I tried to find it as original, but google Would only find her saying “no comment, the president has more important stuff” etc. it is very sad there is even the chance that isn’t made up so that I felt I needed to look. But did you find it as accurate somewhere?
It's not something she said at a press conference. It looks like she just posted it on her facebook page. But I'm still having trouble believing it.

TM

Pretty Little Flower 05-30-2018 07:15 PM
Re: I'm hoping...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 515358)
It's not something she said at a press conference. It looks like she just posted it on her facebook page. But I'm still having trouble believing it.

TM
If only the wack job lunatic fringe meth-addled conspiracy right (which, to simplify things, I will hereafter refer to as "Trump supporters and apologists") had even a tiny fraction of the skepticism that you have:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/sa...anne-barr-job/

Hank Chinaski 05-30-2018 07:22 PM
Re: I'm hoping...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower (Post 515359)
If only the wack job lunatic fringe meth-addled conspiracy right (which, to simplify things, I will hereafter refer to as Trump supporters and apologists) had even a tiny fraction of the skepticism that you have:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/sa...anne-barr-job/
ehh, I feel a real job for the anti-trump is to keep "our" side, as loosely affiliated as that may be, from focusing on left lies. Just this week we saw how Tebow knelt during the anthem etc. and stuff about why congress doesn't bar (ha!) trump from firing mueller- all of it lies or nonsense- and this posted from people who call trump supporters dumb, and from sites that urged third party votes in 2016. it's all disjointed and misses real points.

AND the biggest fear? Today I saw the first "vote 3rd party in 2020" posts.

The fuck is president because people with college degrees thought there'd be no diff between hil and Don. You want to focus on calling trump supporters dumb, god bless.

ThurgreedMarshall 05-30-2018 07:36 PM
Re: I'm hoping...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower (Post 515359)
If only the wack job lunatic fringe meth-addled conspiracy right (which, to simplify things, I will hereafter refer to as "Trump supporters and apologists") had even a tiny fraction of the skepticism that you have:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/sa...anne-barr-job/
Thanks.

TM

Icky Thump 05-30-2018 07:52 PM
Re: We are all Slave now.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 515327)
Hmmm, by 12 years old, if em can hoop, a kid is likely playing AAU. So you're actually seeing the best players.

If you want to pick the sport where you are watching a shell of the world's best- back to baseball. I remember a dad talking about how his HS son is looking to be such a power pitcher that he is almost certainly headed for the Majors, based upon how he mows through HS American players. I didn't have the heart to point out that 66% of MLB is Central/South American players, and the son hasn't even seen that talent pool.
When someone is legit material you see it right away. There was a kid who subbed in on one of my son's hockey teams when they were 10. And yeah, it was apparent. Like "holy fuck" apparent.

He's the 3rd pairing D on his team -- his NHL team.

Hank Chinaski 05-30-2018 08:03 PM
Re: We are all Slave now.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icky Thump (Post 515362)
When someone is legit material you see it right away. There was a kid who subbed in on one of my son's hockey teams when they were 10. And yeah, it was apparent. Like "holy fuck" apparent.

He's the 3rd pairing D on his team -- his NHL team.
no clue on hockey, but for sports people like, I know- tall kids are often uncoordinated before college age. Bron wasn't, but lots are. But my watching my kids play wasn't angling towards how I'll approach agents before the draft. I loved watching.

sebastian_dangerfield 05-31-2018 09:52 AM
Re: I'm hoping...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 515360)
ehh, I feel a real job for the anti-trump is to keep "our" side, as loosely affiliated as that may be, from focusing on left lies. Just this week we saw how Tebow knelt during the anthem etc. and stuff about why congress doesn't bar (ha!) trump from firing mueller- all of it lies or nonsense- and this posted from people who call trump supporters dumb, and from sites that urged third party votes in 2016. it's all disjointed and misses real points.

AND the biggest fear? Today I saw the first "vote 3rd party in 2020" posts.

The fuck is president because people with college degrees thought there'd be no diff between hil and Don. You want to focus on calling trump supporters dumb, god bless.
Let me paraphrase this for you:
"I'm generally fine with whoever gets elected. And most college educated Americans are as well. Third party votes throw volatility into the system which those of us who are doing well in the current system don't like very much.

"It can even backfire and get a guy like Trump elected!

"Don't tell me there should have been better choices. That's no excuse. These are the choices you get in a two party system. Eat your peas and like it. It's immature to protest vote.

"Never mind the choices offered made most of the voting public rightly disgusted. You're enabling the underclasses and the wealthy greedheads! You're a traitor to your professional class in the upper middle!

"Never mind that, if one wishes to see a third party emerge to challenge the two party system, the only way to do that is... wait for the drum roll... voting for a third party. Like I said earlier: Eat your peas and pick from the status quo choice you've been given.

"And never mind I'm really just 'arguing my book' - that one candidate is better for people like us, and one is not, and I think people who voted third party caused the candidate that would benefit me, and other college educated folks like me, to lose."
I'll at least admit voting my book. I've voted for economic reasons most of my life. This time around, I could not do so. I did not see Trump as fit for the office. (I also did not see him winning.) But I'm not about to listen to anyone voting their books run around casting judgment. When you're voting in self-interest, or class interest, it's ill-mannered to offer pretexts.

Adder 05-31-2018 10:52 AM
Re: another level of Hell
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 515349)
This is what drives people of color insane. You can be presented with a string of racist, anti-Semitic bullshit and you will look at each, individually in the best possible light. You (and not just you) know it's racist. You know it's anti-Semitic. And yet you will twist yourself and your logic into knots to try to excuse or overlook it. It's fucking racist. She's a racist. Take the evidence in your face at face value.

This is done with everything from police violence to promotions at work to voting suppression to foreign policy to whatever. It is absolutely amazing to watch people break their back bending backwards trying to read something in the best light in order to say what is obviously racist might not be. Fuck outta here.

TM
See also listening to women about harassment and unequal treatment in the work place.

Adder 05-31-2018 10:54 AM
Re: another level of Hell
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 515354)
This was rare, undilluted racism.
Rare?

Not Bob 05-31-2018 11:23 AM
Re: I'm hoping...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 515365)
Let me paraphrase this for you:
"I'm generally fine with whoever gets elected. And most college educated Americans are as well. Third party votes throw volatility into the system which those of us who are doing well in the current system don't like very much.

"It can even backfire and get a guy like Trump elected!

"Don't tell me there should have been better choices. That's no excuse. These are the choices you get in a two party system. Eat your peas and like it. It's immature to protest vote.

"Never mind the choices offered made most of the voting public rightly disgusted. You're enabling the underclasses and the wealthy greedheads! You're a traitor to your professional class in the upper middle!

"Never mind that, if one wishes to see a third party emerge to challenge the two party system, the only way to do that is... wait for the drum roll... voting for a third party. Like I said earlier: Eat your peas and pick from the status quo choice you've been given.

"And never mind I'm really just 'arguing my book' - that one candidate is better for people like us, and one is not, and I think people who voted third party caused the candidate that would benefit me, and other college educated folks like me, to lose."
I'll at least admit voting my book. I've voted for economic reasons most of my life. This time around, I could not do so. I did not see Trump as fit for the office. (I also did not see him winning.) But I'm not about to listen to anyone voting their books run around casting judgment. When you're voting in self-interest, or class interest, it's ill-mannered to offer pretexts.
Dude. A functioning civil society and (mostly) following the constitution and laws are Hank’s book? And mine?

Dude.

Hank Chinaski 05-31-2018 11:49 AM
Re: I'm hoping...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 515365)
Let me paraphrase this for you:
"I'm generally fine with whoever gets elected. And most college educated Americans are as well. Third party votes throw volatility into the system which those of us who are doing well in the current system don't like very much.

"It can even backfire and get a guy like Trump elected!

"Don't tell me there should have been better choices. That's no excuse. These are the choices you get in a two party system. Eat your peas and like it. It's immature to protest vote.

"Never mind the choices offered made most of the voting public rightly disgusted. You're enabling the underclasses and the wealthy greedheads! You're a traitor to your professional class in the upper middle!

"Never mind that, if one wishes to see a third party emerge to challenge the two party system, the only way to do that is... wait for the drum roll... voting for a third party. Like I said earlier: Eat your peas and pick from the status quo choice you've been given.

"And never mind I'm really just 'arguing my book' - that one candidate is better for people like us, and one is not, and I think people who voted third party caused the candidate that would benefit me, and other college educated folks like me, to lose."
I'll at least admit voting my book. I've voted for economic reasons most of my life. This time around, I could not do so. I did not see Trump as fit for the office. (I also did not see him winning.) But I'm not about to listen to anyone voting their books run around casting judgment. When you're voting in self-interest, or class interest, it's ill-mannered to offer pretexts.
you're way too thin skinned. I was talking to Dems posting nonsense (Reich- the brainy D- "we need to get rid of the electoral college!" how can anyone with three digits in their IQ read this?) on FB then calling trump people dumb in the next moment. most of the hard core nonsense comes from DU and other Bernie hives- and those sites are why Trump is president.

As to my pocket book, Trump may end up helping that, assuming he doesn't burn it all down. Mostly I just didn't want a president that tweets ugly at 3 AM*. That simple.

*at first. the immigration shite did get to me pretty hard also.


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