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Not giving a fuck about anyone outside your manufactured isolation shell is the ultimate luxury. Save your breath. TM |
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Jesus. TM |
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TM |
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So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past. |
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Sebby definitely gives a shit about what other people think. If we didn't have idealistic pretensions, he would not be able to deflate them. He's not a conservative, but what he shares with conservatives is a preoccupation with what his peers (a/k/a "elites") are thinking, and a desire to take them down a notch or two. But he does believe the criminal-justice system is unfair and thinks it should be more fair, unlike most conservatives, who generally like the way it perpetuates traditional heirarchies. |
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People that don't vote are harder to move. Nominate someone with President's Obama's qualities and you'll get there, sure. Do you see that person coming up? Bernie is running again! |
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Trump voters and Hillary voters come down to two essential positions: 1. Keep things going as they are; 2. Rearrange things. I did not want to see Trump win. I feared volatility, and to a certain extent still do. That's my economic interest talking. I also do not like the pitchforks in the streets populism that defined Bannonism. To be anti-populist is to be, well, classist. The system under Obama favored people in our economic and social situations. Under Trump it also does so. But I'd be crazy not to conclude that a significant concern of the professional class regarding Trump was his potential negative impact on their economic status. You can't break apart the economic and social hierarchy concerns of voters from the altruistic reasons they claim to vote as they have. Every person's pocketbook and social standing is with him or her in the voting booth. |
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That said, it just seems to me to be harder to go to people who were motivate to vote and to change their minds, as opposed to finding people who basically agree with you and didn't bother to cast a vote. Both have their challenges, but a mind is a terrible thing to change. As we prove here on a daily basis. |
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1. Equality 2. Hierarchy Am I playing your reductio game the right way? |
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In this instance, I very much care what Hank is thinking because the argument third party voters caused Clinton to lose, and didn't have a right to vote as they did, is total bullshit. Trump and Hillary caused Hillary to lose. Trump because he tapped into a brilliant marketing strategy at exactly the right time. Hillary because she blundered through the campaign and failed to shore up the Blue Wall. Hank's deflection has lacked logic from the start. And the whole whinefest about how Hillary lost because of actions of others has irked me from the start. So I wound up committing a logical fallacy myself: ad hominem. But I don't disown it. I will always believe there are hidden economic motives and social/class anxieties woven through almost all of the impassioned arguments about politics. To think there are not, I would have to assume none of the Trump voters I've met harbor hidden, perhaps unconscious motivations. Neither you nor I would say that. We couldn't. Nor could anyone else here, as we've all held forth on the secret motives of Trumpkins. Can you credibly say that only one half of this country - the Trumpkins - harbors self-interested motives re politics? Your side is exactly and entirely what it says it is, while their side is the only group with behind-the-scenes agendas? This whole thing started with Hank citing the Left's "fake news." I'll grant you the Right is far more dishonest about its motives. But are you seriously asserting there weren't economic concerns baked into the decision to vote for Hillary? Of course you can't say that. The only question is how deep those motives run. That, we'll never know. |
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1. Hierarchy I like. 2. Hierarchy I do not like. |
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