Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

People like you give empty formalism a bad name.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

Romney’s binder comment was taken out of context and totally mischaracterized by the Left. It’s shameful there were so many retarded people in this country who believed it was sexist.

And I hated Romney.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

I seem to be the only person on the internet who thinks that Al Franken doesn't deserve the full Justine Sacco treatment.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

You can’t always get what you want. (AL being barred from all political participation.). But if you read the code sometimes, you get what you need. (“Sorry, it’s the Constitution, redneck.”)

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

Tell me what's wrong in this article from the time, which, incidentally, points out that Romney did a pretty good job of appointing women while he was the governor of Massachusetts.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

Ty:

Also Ty:

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

Wrong in what regard? There are many angles from which to assess it.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

So you're discounting the kiss? and the photo is okay because he was mugging for the camera? To me the fact that the photo was "a joke" somehow makes it seem worse than if snapped without his knowledge, that is not as a "joke."

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

I should shame those people who’ve drawn on me while passed out on couches.

The photo is miserable, but not because it’s meant to be funny. He was fucking with someone who, when conscious, wanted no part of him. Line crossed, by miles.

ETA: Agreed, however, that the kiss is the real crime here. Creep.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

That's not what i said.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

Can you translate to English for me?

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

Yes, I actually went and found an answer to my own question,* and posted it here.

* Which, btw, was a real question, not a rhetorical one, and seems to have a non-simple answer, per Franke-Ruta's article.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

Well, you previously said "Romney’s binder comment was taken out of context and totally mischaracterized by the Left. It’s shameful there were so many retarded people in this country who believed it was sexist." I think that article tends to suggest otherwise.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

I am suggesting that the reaction seems disproportionate, as often seems to happen with shaming on the internet.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

Not sure I see the comparison to Justine Sacco. She was criticized and punished for people willfully misinterpreting what she said. How is Al being misinterpreted?

If fact, his second statement today seems to get it. It's what he should have said first. An unconditional apology and welcoming an ethics investigation is what he can do at this point, short of resigning.

I don't want to be the one who has to figure out if he should resign. I'm going to listen to women on that question.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

In that regard, yes, you found an exception, if one counts the Atlantic among the Left. I do not. I think it’s just a well written moderate magazine.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

The allegation is that he assaulted her - forcing a kiss - and then harassed her about it. What's proportionate?

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

Why is it that these trolls think smart, super-attractive women would be interested in them just because they’re politicians? There are plenty of gold diggers out there, and they aren’t hard to spot. Don’t play out of your league, dude.

This doesn’t apply to Clinton. Even as a straight male, I can see his sexual charisma and he’s a decent looking cat.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

"He repeated that actors really need to rehearse everything and that we must practice the kiss. I said ‘OK’ so he would stop badgering me." He then kissed her.

Would I have done what he did? No. Do I think he should have listened to her? Yes. Do I think he comes off well? No. If he says "we should kiss" and she says "OK" and then they kiss, is that assault? No.

I'm pro listening to women on that question, also anti abdicating ones own responsibility as a citizen.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

You left out the "stuck his tongue down my throat." (paraphrase)

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

So it looks like Al Franken has a second victim coming forward....

This is getting schadenfreudtastic.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

Come on, you went to law school too.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

Not that it matters at this point, but we must be looking at two different photos.

Yes. Gross, stupid, childish, sexist.

TM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

The calls for his resignation seem a bit premature. If he admitted to forcibly kissing this woman, I might be agree that he should go. But if they were doing a scene that called for a kiss and he actually wanted to practice it, it's hard to say he should be removed from office for that.

The photo is stupid. If that's all he did, I don't see it as something that should be dwelled on. If he actually groped her after that photo was taken, he should be in deep shit.

TM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

You mean the right winger who says he argued with her about budget numbers after an appearance on Politically Incorrect and called her a few times after to continue doing so?

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

At your law school they taught that exceeding the bounds of consent isn't assault? Huh.

Honestly don't remember anything applicable from law school, but regardless, consenting to rehearse a stage kiss isn't consent to tongue wrestling.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

Do you think he needs to step down to send the right message that the Left is consistent when it comes to these things?

If not, how do you reconcile that with your views that Obama not take speaking fees after leaving office so that the Left can send a consistent message about not being tied to moneyed interests?

TM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

Stop it. That's a kiss. It sounds like he is just bad at it.

TM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

I agree with you, unless he was in a position of power over her. I don't know enough about the details to opine on that.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

I missed the part where they had a meeting of the minds about the bounds of her consent.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

I think he does not need to end his career, and Obama does not need to take a vow of poverty. Both of them can and should take less drastic steps to address two rather different issues.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

https://media.giphy.com/media/dEdmW17JnZhiU/giphy.gif

TM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

Having re-read her description, it's clear she's trying to make the point that it was more than a kiss, saying he grabbed the back of her head, smashed his mouth into hers and stuck his tongue in her mouth. She's saying that's more than she expected.

But yeah, all of that is also a kiss.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

My understanding as someone who in lives past did a lot of community theater, stage kisses do not customarily involve tongue, so to do it in rehearsal doesn't seem like one could reasonably assume that she consented.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

I understand why you disagreed with me about Obama, so let's not keeping beating that particularly dead horse. But I don't get why you think there's any parallel between the two situations. What Obama did wasn't wrong, and there was no victim. It was a completely consensual relationship, just one that didn't really help his party.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

That was my thinking, absent the history of community theater.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

To be clear, I would not want Al Franken to do that to me. That said, by her account she was performing skits full of sexual innuendo geared toward a young, male audience. I don't think I'm going out on a limb by suggesting that in that context, performers would overplay a kiss, and rehearsal would not be a peck on the cheek. Did he go too far? Sounds like it. Would most people call that assault? I don't think so.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

Yeah. I read the quotation. And yes, it's a kiss. I'm not sure what your point is. I understand the implication. He was more into it than she was or wanted him to be. But he wrote a scene with a kiss. He asked her to rehearse it. She agreed and he kissed her. Gross, aggressive, too much. Yes, yes, yes. But it's still a kiss and one she consented to.

But I think we've exhausted this. I don't think we're even very far off in what we think about his behavior.

TM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

I think the similarity lies in what the Democratic Party's positions should be when it comes to certain issues and how those who are leaders in the party should comport themselves relating to those issues. Obviously the two issues are completely different. But if, in either case, we are to send a message as to what is appropriate and we expect our party leaders to act consistently with that message, I want to know why we should think of one differently than the other. Just because the expected action to be taken is different is irrelevant.

Sexual Harrassment: Those who engage in it are unfit for office and should step down or forced out.

Perception of Wall Street Corruption: If you take money from Wall Street, even after you leave office, it creates a perception of corruption and you should decline all such offers.

If you believe that we need to send a message about what we think about accepting money and therefore need to create a blanket rule to avoid the perception that the party condones or overlooks corruption when it comes to itself, how is that different than sending a message about what we think about sexual harassment and the need to create a blanket rule to avoid the perception that the party condones or overlooks it when it comes to itself?

TM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

A stage kiss? Not so sure.