Thoughts on the new TL v G35?
 

I've driven a 6MT G35 coupe, and an auto G35 sedan. They were nice. Lots of pep, and I preferred the 6MT. I imagine the 6MT sedan would be a lot of fun. I've heard that the TL is a nice car, but less seat-of-the-pants fun than the G35, which is RWD. If you're looking for smooth and a nicer interior, get the TL, if you're looking for performance and a sportier feel, I'd seriously consider the 6MT G35 sedan, or go with the BMW 330.

Thoughts on the new TL v G35?
 

G35 is a lot more fun to drive, but the new TL has a lot nicer interior. The G35 seems to scream 21 year old male, for some reason. Maybe it's the silver trim and the cheap plastic. Too bad thought, it's very nice looking from the outside and has great road manners.

Drove the new BMW 530 a couple of weeks ago and reallly really liked it. It is geared much tighter than the current 530 which is horribly underpowered (as compared to the 540 which is funner to drive). 530 has a little more giddyup than the older version and the sports package corners very tight (like a 330 with sports package), and has steering so tight on lock to lock that you don't even have to take your hands off the wheel.

Also drove the new E320 with sports pacakge on the same day. Mercedes overall has nicer interior, but no where near the handling of the Beemer and is more $$. Mercedes has adjustable ride, which was kind of cool, but gearing is so conservative that it makes the car boring to drive. Steering was a bit twitchy. And the brakes suck. They have a new "intelligent" braking system that slows the car based on how hard you cram on the brakes, but it feels like you're having to cram on the brakes all the time, which releases kind of a panic mechanism in your brain. Didn't like it.

Will report back on the new 540 when it comes in.

(POLL) 25-30k pre owned sports sedan decision
 

I posted this on the other board, I could really use the collective gearhead input from this board as well.

Despite the bonus gods frugal nature this year, I will be in the market for a car in early January. I have narrowed it down to the following sedans: (in no particular order)

1. 2001 BMW e46 330I sport
(Smooth silky 6, speaks for itself as to handling)

2. 2002 Audi A4 3.0
(Most attractive exterior, not sure on the 3.0 performance)

3. 2001.5-2002 Audi S4
(With a $500.00 chip this car will make 310 hp! Old body style though. Also higher turbo upkeep costs.)

4. 1998 BMW e39 540 Sport 6spd
(Old e39 body style , but close to 300 hp with a 6 spd manual = driving enjoyment. But the enjoyment may be short lived due to the cars age, repairs etc)

5. 2003 Infinity G35
(Like the car in general, but I have not been able to locate a pre owned 6 spd manual, I don't like the interior buttons etc, though. The silver push buttons remind me of an old Emerson clock radio)

Thoughts? How would you rank them, and why. Anything else I should consider?

Flanders

(POLL) 25-30k pre owned sports sedan decision
 

I'd go with the following top 3:

1. 2001 S4
2. 2002 A4
3. 2001 330

As a disclaimer, I have a 2001 A4 2.8 and I really enjoy it. The corner handling on the Audi's blows away BMW. The S4 might cost more in repairs, but it also won't depreciate as fast as the other cars listed (putting the 1998 BMW aside based on age alone) and it should be under warranty for another year or so. I dismissed the Infiniti for no reason other than the fact that the rest of your list is German and if you like German engineering, you probably won't enjoy a Japanese car as much as the others.

I have not heard much one way or the other on the 3.0 vs. my 2.8, but the 2.8 has a lot of pep and can beat most cars that I encounter on initial acceleration when the light turns green.

$.02

(POLL) 25-30k pre owned sports sedan decision
 

Hmmm, tough choices. Assuming the used cars are in decent condition, I'd pick in this order:

1. 1998 BMW e39 540 Sport 6spd. Still a good looking design, great power, handling, room, comfort, everything. Insurance probably not bad either.

2. 2001.5-2002 Audi S4. By all accounts a screamer. Maintenance may be an issue, but when it runs, it should be a lot of fun. Lots of aftermarket performance parts too.

3. 2003 Infiniti G35 6MT sedan. A brand new car w/ warranty, good service, and car of the year awards (along with coupe). Still has a lot of pep, and again, Turbos and superchargers are being designed, some that may be suitable for the sedan.

4. 2001 BMW e46 330I sport. Solid choice, but a dime a dozen. Still a nice car though.

5. 2002 Audi A4 3.0. This is a great car too, and by ncs's account, a fun one to drive. However, this opinion is offset by my friend's experience, in which he is always bringing it to the shop for some mystery repairs. Maybe he's just cursed though. I'm told the interior is very nice for the price, and it's a strong car. Also a lot of aftermarket stuff.

Good luck!

Flinty

(POLL) 25-30k pre owned sports sedan decision
 

I agree, only I would flip-flop the first two. If performance is your goal, the Audi is the one with most potential. Add bigger turbos and coilovers and you pretty much have yourself a race car.

If all-out performance isn't what you want, the 540i is hard to pass up.

I wouldn't even the consider the G35. It's a terrific car, mechanically, but the looks do absolutely NOTHING for me.

Really comes down to how much you like rear wheel drive as opposed to need all wheel drive. I am assuming that the Audis are all quattros.

1. 2001.5-2002 Audi S4
This is probably the best performance car of the lot. However, manual tranny is only 5 speeds as opposed to 6.

2. 2001 BMW e46 330I sport
I would put this first, in my opinion. I was actually in the market for Audis and other stuff until I drove my first BMW. I got one 2 weeks later. Can't compare the balance/handling. The Audi always seemed "heavy" to me.

3. 2002 Audi A4 3.0
Probably best fit and finish

4. 1998 BMW e39 540 Sport 6spd
This one will cost you a few bucks for repairs.

5. 2003 Infinity G35
Kind of chintzy. Will not handle like the German cars.

I would also think about the 9-5 Aero. You can get those 2 years old dirt cheep. One like this (though automatic) is $21k with 44k miles. The car does scream: Yuppie slut soccer mom, though.

http://www.roberti.com/cardata/M-5806.jpg

Mmmmmmmmm, slutty soccer moms...

soccer moms
 

All the slutty soccer moms I know drive these:

http://www.edmunds.com/media/news/co...plorer.500.jpg

More room and the seats flip down, or so I'm told.

soccer moms
 

That's the slutty soccer moms in Jersey. In pony's rather affluent suburbs they drive Saabs and Volvos. The slutty soccer moms don't do cars in pony's neck of the woods. You have to sneak 'em in the bathroom at parties.

soccer moms
 

Are you saying you're doing paigow's momma on the sly?

(POLL) 25-30k pre owned sports sedan decision
 

I would consider what you want a little bit more.

The E39 is an incredibly solid platform, and you can also get additional *reliable* power out of it. The BMW 4.4 V8 is an incredible engine. I'd be less concerned with the longevity of a well maintained '98 V8 E39 than I would either of the Audis you mentioned.

The new Audis, I think, look great outside, and have the nicest interiors in the class. But even the 3.0 is not a barnstormer in the quattro format. If you need or want AWD*, they're your choice, obviously. But consider the poor mechanical reliability, quirky annoying problems. If you're concerned about resale value, I don't think either of the Audis will hold resale as well as any of the other cars in the list, given the dime a dozen nature of the A4 and the new body style and engine format which has replaced the S4. And, can you really find a 2002 S4 for under $30k? Also, you've got to worry about how the turbos and the engine were treated. You're not (or the guy who already put it in your used S4 is not) just paying $500 for that chip; you're paying $500 plus smaller margins of error, more destuctive detonation and hotter exhaust gasses spinning your two expensive to buy and expensive to pay a mechanic to remove half the engine to replace turbos.

I don't like the look outside or the feel inside of the G35, and the handling and ride is a little sterile, but it's a solid platform. It's the most stereotypically Japanese of the bunch, but might be tough to find with a 6-speed.

The E46 is the all-around winner. Not the best in performance, fun, interior or exterior. Maybe the best handler, but the S4 would probably out-slalom is. But the S4 is a pig. Probably as heavy as the E39.

Where do you live, and how do you like to drive? If this is a primary car and you live where it rains a lot, or where it ever really snows, or you like to drive spiritedly around town, the S4 or the A4 depending on your risk tolerance, your ability to drop 10K for repairs if need be and whether or not you care that your car isn't the current body style.

If you can do RWD, the E39 is the most impressive from a power and luxury standpoint, and you can do a lot of simple, reliable aftermarket stuff to it. At the dealer, even. But it's 6 years old. If you want a new car, the G35 is you want raw power, the E46 if you want precision and an all-around value.

Can you get used Volvo V60R's that cheap yet? That would probably be my choice if you could. And the 9-5 is also a quirky, yet perhaps appropriate, choice. Just for completeness, have you considered the IS300?
*Which is always a good idea, but you can also just put a _real_ set of winter tires on any of the RWD cars if you need to for your climate. It depends how you drive and how often you have to get somewhere in the winter in the dead of night, too.

Big Three Is Watching You (well, listening actually)
 

The ultraliberal Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals has ruled that federal law enforcement authorities can properly compel auto manufacturers to employ their on-board navigation and communication technologies built into many luxury cars for the purposes of wiretapping in criminal investigations, as long as such tapping does not disable the emergency communications components of the on-board system.

In other words, they open an "always on" com link to your Escalade's* cabin, and listen to all the conversations you're having without you knowing it, which isn't really a "tap" so much as a "bug," all using the technology you paid for when you bought the car, and draining your car battery to do it. Presumably they don't stick you with the massive cell-phone bill.

Opinion in PDF.

*Example purposes only. I hate that fucking truck.

Rant
 

I am strangely incredibly disappointed that you have a BMW. If it is any shade in the blue-gray range and the finish is metallic, I am even more disappointed.

Edited to note that nevertheless, I heart you.

Thoughts on the new TL v G35?
 

Perfect car for the wifey.