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-   -   We are all Slave now. (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=882)

Hank Chinaski 10-10-2018 08:20 PM

Re: We are all Slave now.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 518524)
Because of Hank's suggestion earlier, I am thinking about how to fix the politicization of the Court. What if any nominee to the Court had to be approved by the current members of the Court instead of or in addition to the Senate? Not saying this would ever happen, but it would create interesting incentives.

Horrible idea. We want completely neutral evaluators- plus Kav-Kav would only vote for hotties, and that would kill Adder's chances.

sebastian_dangerfield 10-11-2018 09:05 AM

Re: I met God today on an uptown train.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Bob (Post 518522)
Suit yourself. Just don’t blame me for missing unlimited bananas in monkey heaven, amigo.

After they serve a cake made with my ashes, a piece of which anyone wishing to inherit anything from me must eat (on camera) in order to receive money, but before the ceremony concludes to “Rocks Off,” “Let it Bleed” and “Sister Ray,” I’d like a short eulogy Just Like This:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xgU6SwuZJIY

“He didn’t go anywhere… He’s just fucking dead.”

Pretty Little Flower 10-11-2018 10:01 AM

Re: We are all Slave now.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 518506)
That’s fair. I left that door open. And why not? Nobody pops-up a change-up into the center fielder’s glove with a more dramatic swing than Flower. It’s mean to point out the rest of pitches on which he gets caught looking.

Wait, what? I demonstrate how you have hypocritically called out people for engaging in the exact type of dishonest semantic sleight of hand that you do all the time (and provide an egregious, and hilarious, example from just a week or two ago) and that is a pop fly for an out? I'm pretty sure you don't understand how baseball works. Or maybe how metaphors work. Possibly both. But hey, no need to get all pouty and bent out of shape (again). FWIW, I agree with you on the lunacy of the concept of a perfect god who is also petty, vain, narcissistic, and mean. Don't get me wrong, I think the "God made man in his own image" crowd was not that far off. They just transposed a couple of words.

[Confidential to NotBob: Can I have your banana? And by banana, I mean all of your worldly possessions. I'm concerned you have not done enough to hedge your Pascalian wager. You know, the whole camel through the eye of needle thing. Anyhoo, hit me up on the DM and we can make the necessary arrangements.]

Pretty Little Flower 10-11-2018 10:05 AM

Re: I met God today on an uptown train.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 518526)
After they serve a cake made with my ashes, a piece of which anyone wishing to inherit anything from me must eat (on camera) in order to receive money, but before the ceremony concludes to “Rocks Off,” “Let it Bleed” and “Sister Ray,” I’d like a short eulogy Just Like This:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xgU6SwuZJIY

“He didn’t go anywhere… He’s just fucking dead.”

What. The. Fuck. "Rocks Off" was my primary example of the legitimacy of horns in rock, and now you want to use it in your funeral? It's like I don't even know you any more. I just love this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lNP-x94-SE

Tyrone Slothrop 10-11-2018 11:56 AM

Re: We are all Slave now.
 
Life in Minnesota, Part LVI.

sebastian_dangerfield 10-11-2018 12:13 PM

Kavanaugh: Incel Hero, or "UberChad"?
 
I don't think we're at peak crazy in this country yet. But this Incel thing proves we may be getting close: https://www.thedailybeast.com/kavana...ncel-community

The Becky, Stacy, and Chad categories, if you were unaware: https://www.vox.com/2018/4/28/172902...ad-stacy-becky

This is an endless vein of cuckoo: https://wiki.incels.info/w/Incel_Wiki

sebastian_dangerfield 10-11-2018 12:40 PM

Re: I met God today on an uptown train.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower (Post 518528)
What. The. Fuck. "Rocks Off" was my primary example of the legitimacy of horns in rock, and now you want to use it in your funeral? It's like I don't even know you any more. I just love this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lNP-x94-SE

My attachment is largely to that break, where the song restarts and Mick throws off the line, "The sunshine bores the daylights outta me/Chasing shadows, moonlight mystery/Heading for the overload/Splattered on the dirty road/Kick me like you've kicked before/I can't even feel the pain no more..." I've no idea what it means (except to sympathize with the opening line when I was younger and would stay up all evening, all weekend), but I've always loved it.

LessinSF 10-11-2018 02:42 PM

Re: I met God today on an uptown train.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 518526)
After they serve a cake made with my ashes, a piece of which anyone wishing to inherit anything from me must eat (on camera) in order to receive money, but before the ceremony concludes to “Rocks Off,” “Let it Bleed” and “Sister Ray,” I’d like a short eulogy Just Like This:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xgU6SwuZJIY

“He didn’t go anywhere… He’s just fucking dead.”

Bourdain during Sunday night's show from Indonesia, discussing what to do with his remains:

“Leave me in the jungle. I don’t want a party: ‘reported dead.’ You know, what actually happens to my physical remains is of zero interest to me, unless they can provide entertainment value," Bourdain says. "Throw me into a wood chipper and spray me into Harrods, you know, at the middle of the rush hour. That would be pretty epic. I wouldn’t mind being remembered in that way.”

https://www.esquire.com/entertainmen...-12-episode-3/

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 10-11-2018 03:18 PM

Re: We are all Slave now.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 518525)
Horrible idea. We want completely neutral evaluators- plus Kav-Kav would only vote for hotties, and that would kill Adder's chances.

I say we develop an algorithm to assess judges based on the characteristics of past Supreme Court justices.

Hank Chinaski 10-11-2018 04:00 PM

Re: I met God today on an uptown train.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LessinSF (Post 518558)
Bourdain during Sunday night's show from Indonesia, discussing what to do with his remains:

“Leave me in the jungle. I don’t want a party: ‘reported dead.’ You know, what actually happens to my physical remains is of zero interest to me, unless they can provide entertainment value," Bourdain says. "Throw me into a wood chipper and spray me into Harrods, you know, at the middle of the rush hour. That would be pretty epic. I wouldn’t mind being remembered in that way.”

https://www.esquire.com/entertainmen...-12-episode-3/

My uncle just passed- bachelor so it is on me to wrap stuff up. He was a typical drunken football playing high school and college guy, until he flunked out- (no reported sexual assaults so not Kavanaughish) THEN he got beatnik and eventually Buddhist and read constantly, books not blogs (hi Ty!). Of course had no interest in his old friends. But when he died they pinged me on FaceBook and wondered when the ceremony would be. And we intended one until we read in one his journals NO SERVICE. It is so hard to convince these old drunk friends that there was not one, because everyone believes there was, just they weren't invited.

Tyrone Slothrop 10-11-2018 04:13 PM

Re: I met God today on an uptown train.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 518560)
My uncle just passed- bachelor so it is on me to wrap stuff up. He was a typical drunken football playing high school and college guy, until he flunked out- (no reported sexual assaults so not Kavanaughish) THEN he got beatnik and eventually Buddhist and read constantly, books not blogs (hi Ty!). Of course had no interest in his old friends. But when he died they pinged me on FaceBook and wondered when the ceremony would be. And we intended one until we read in one his journals NO SERVICE. It is so hard to convince these old drunk friends that there was not one, because everyone believes there was, just they weren't invited.

I just finished this book, and it was pretty good. So they had a service and it was good. When Lick died he had said he didn't want a service, but by then he was dead. The service is really for the survivors. Sorry for your loss. You should have a service! When my mother died, it took months for my step-father to face doing one, but it was still so much better than not having one would have been.

Pretty Little Flower 10-12-2018 09:50 AM

Re: I believe that God believes in Bob, not me.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Bob (Post 518515)
I’m more of a Pascal’s Wager kind of a guy, and now I’m kind of hoping to see the unlimited bananas in monkey heaven.

Cardinal resigns after grand jury report implicates him in massive sex abuse cover up. Pope praises Cardinal, whose actions led to the continued sexual abuse of likely hundreds of children, as a model bishop.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/12/w...gtype=Homepage

Sorry to beat a dead horse, but it's fucking amazing to me that folks still look to these people as having the moral authority to determine who gets the imaginary afterlife bananas.

sebastian_dangerfield 10-12-2018 10:22 AM

Re: I believe that God believes in Bob, not me.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower (Post 518618)
Cardinal resigns after grand jury report implicates him in massive sex abuse cover up. Pope praises Cardinal, whose actions led to the continued sexual abuse of likely hundreds of children, as a model bishop.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/12/w...gtype=Homepage

Sorry to beat a dead horse, but it's fucking amazing to me that folks still look to these people as having the moral authority to determine who gets the imaginary afterlife bananas.

The Catholic Church is a criminally corrupt organization. Were it a corporation, it'd have been indicted, closed, and its assets liquidated by now.

Percentage of hyperbole in the above statement? 0.0.

sebastian_dangerfield 10-12-2018 10:34 AM

Re: I met God today on an uptown train.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 518561)
I just finished this book, and it was pretty good. So they had a service and it was good. When Lick died he had said he didn't want a service, but by then he was dead. The service is really for the survivors. Sorry for your loss. You should have a service! When my mother died, it took months for my step-father to face doing one, but it was still so much better than not having one would have been.

I want a party. Open bar, good tunes, casual attire.

Nothing is a greater waste of time than a maudlin funeral. Somebody's already dead. Having the assembled act like they are too serves very little purpose.

Richard Dawkins has my proxy:
“We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. The potential people who could have been here in my place but who will in fact never see the light of day outnumber the sand grains of Arabia. Certainly those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton. We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA so massively exceeds the set of actual people. In the teeth of these stupefying odds it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here.We privileged few, who won the lottery of birth against all odds, how dare we whine at our inevitable return to that prior state from which the vast majority have never stirred?”
That has always struck me as a perfect refutation of the necessity of religion, and of dour ceremonies ushering the deceased into Charon's Boat. We're all damned fortunate to have been here at all. Get over yourselves.

It's also an excellent argument against the work-to-consume hamster wheel of American culture.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 10-12-2018 11:08 AM

Re: I met God today on an uptown train.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 518620)
I want a party. Open bar, good tunes, casual attire.

Nothing is a greater waste of time than a maudlin funeral. Somebody's already dead. Having the assembled act like they are too serves very little purpose.

Richard Dawkins has my proxy:
“We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. The potential people who could have been here in my place but who will in fact never see the light of day outnumber the sand grains of Arabia. Certainly those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton. We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA so massively exceeds the set of actual people. In the teeth of these stupefying odds it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here.We privileged few, who won the lottery of birth against all odds, how dare we whine at our inevitable return to that prior state from which the vast majority have never stirred?”
That has always struck me as a perfect refutation of the necessity of religion, and of dour ceremonies ushering the deceased into Charon's Boat. We're all damned fortunate to have been here at all. Get over yourselves.

It's also an excellent argument against the work-to-consume hamster wheel of American culture.


I think it would be in order to have a cover band at the funeral leading the congregation in a sing-a-long of "War! What is it Good For!" Good God, Y'all!

Did you just call me Coltrane? 10-12-2018 12:01 PM

Re: We are all Slave now.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower (Post 518527)
[Confidential to NotBob: Can I have your banana? And by banana, I mean all of your worldly possessions. I'm concerned you have not done enough to hedge your Pascalian wager. You know, the whole camel through the eye of needle thing. Anyhoo, hit me up on the DM and we can make the necessary arrangements.]

Bananas might be gone forever soon:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/cave...n-gene-editing

I too would like NB's banana. It's the Christian thing to do.

Tyrone Slothrop 10-12-2018 12:52 PM

Re: We are all Slave now.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane? (Post 518622)
Bananas might be gone forever soon:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/cave...n-gene-editing

I too would like NB's banana. It's the Christian thing to do.

Quote:

TR4 only affects a particular type of banana called the Cavendish. There are more than 1,000 banana varieties in the world, but the Cavendish, named after a British nobleman who grew the exotic fruit in his greenhouses on the edge of the Peak District, makes up almost the entire export market. The Brazilian apple banana, for example, is small and tart with firm flesh, while the stubby Pisang Awak, a staple in Malaysia, is much sweeter than the Cavendish. But no banana has become as ubiquitous as the Cavendish, which accounts for 47 per cent of all global production of the fruit.
I will miss Cavendish bananas, but there are many other bananas.

Hank Chinaski 10-12-2018 01:20 PM

Re: We are all Slave now.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane? (Post 518622)
Bananas might be gone forever soon:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/cave...n-gene-editing

I too would like NB's banana. It's the Christian thing to do.

Only a CIS white man would assume the bananas in heaven will be Cavendish.

Did you just call me Coltrane? 10-12-2018 01:47 PM

Re: We are all Slave now.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 518623)
I will miss Cavendish bananas, but there are many other bananas.

There are infinite bananas waiting for you! Of every possible variety!

So there's no reason not to give me the ones your currently own.

sebastian_dangerfield 10-12-2018 02:11 PM

Re: We are all Slave now.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane? (Post 518622)
Bananas might be gone forever soon:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/cave...n-gene-editing

I too would like NB's banana. It's the Christian thing to do.

Thus was written the final and crushing indignity of the Bluths.

Tyrone Slothrop 10-12-2018 02:16 PM

Re: We are all Slave now.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane? (Post 518625)
There are infinite bananas waiting for you! Of every possible variety!

So there's no reason not to give me the ones your currently own.

Sorry. String beans?

sebastian_dangerfield 10-12-2018 02:22 PM

Re: We are all Slave now.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 518513)
I understand Susan Collins has come out with a statement on the Jamal Khashoggi situation, and that while she recognizes that the Washington Post says something happened, because Saudi Arabia has forcefully denied it, it must have been someone else who hurt Khashoggi inside the Saudi embassy.

If the Turks are worth anything, they’ll release the video. It’d destabilize the Kingdom.

Adder 10-12-2018 03:06 PM

Re: We are all Slave now.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 518628)
If the Turks are worth anything, they’ll release the video. It’d destabilize the Kingdom.

Will it? I actually have no idea how much control the regime has over the media.

ETA: Also, does Turkey want a destabilized Kingdom? Or is there something else they want?

This thing is beyond my level of understanding of the dynamics at play.

Pretty Little Flower 10-12-2018 03:15 PM

Re: We are all Slave now.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane? (Post 518625)
There are infinite bananas waiting for you! Of every possible variety!

So there's no reason not to give me the ones your currently own.

I don't understand how you're suddenly getting everyone's bananas. I asked first, and I care much more about the spiritual well being of these people than you do. I should get the bananas, or at least the lion's share of them.

Hank Chinaski 10-12-2018 04:12 PM

Re: We are all Slave now.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower (Post 518630)
I should get the bananas, or at least the lion's share of them.

The basis for the phrase supporting your "right?" the lion is accompanied by a goat and a sheep, the deer they take is divided into four. the lion begins by claiming portions as a legal right and retains the others with threats. In La Fontaine's Fables there is a fourfold division between a heifer, a goat and a lamb (Fables I.6). Each of these the lion retains because he is king, the strongest, the bravest, and will kill the first who touches the fourth part.

Only a CIS white male would look to that as a positive image for themselves- Make america great Again, indeed. sad.

Did you just call me Coltrane? 10-12-2018 04:17 PM

Re: We are all Slave now.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 518627)

I will put your bananas in my hammock:

http://www.joesbananahammock.com/wp-...16_blog-12.jpg

Replaced_Texan 10-12-2018 05:56 PM

Re: We are all Slave now.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 518628)
If the Turks are worth anything, they’ll release the video. It’d destabilize the Kingdom.

There's word now that he recorded the whole interview on his apple watch and uploaded it to the cloud.

sebastian_dangerfield 10-15-2018 08:27 AM

Re: We are all Slave now.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 518629)
Will it? I actually have no idea how much control the regime has over the media.

ETA: Also, does Turkey want a destabilized Kingdom? Or is there something else they want?

This thing is beyond my level of understanding of the dynamics at play.

Saying you have this video is 95% as good as actually having it. Everyone paying attention to the story now believes it exists. So whatever blackmail leverage this could confer to the Turks has already been spent. I infer from that strategy, as opposed to holding the video quietly and blackmailing the Saudis, the Turks are openly hostile to the Saudis and intend to use the video to damage the Kingdom. My second inference is that somebody other than the Saudis is holding them back from releasing the video. Given the Saudis are our staunch ally, however, if this video exists, Wikileaks will be leaked a copy at some point.

sebastian_dangerfield 10-15-2018 08:39 AM

Re: We are all Slave now.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan (Post 518633)
There's word now that he recorded the whole interview on his apple watch and uploaded it to the cloud.

Note how quickly stories have emerged asserting Khashoggi was a terrorist apologist, and how iWatches cannot sync with phones at the distance involved here.

The first is unvarnished propaganda -- Saudis using western media allies. The second is amusing because none of the stories provides a breakdown of the interior of the consulate. It's all surmising about how far away from his fiance's iPhone he was standing. It all assumes facts not at all evident from the scant information the authors know. One can assume these stories are either journalists recklessly speculating or trying to look like sleuths... or again, biased journalists doing the Saudis' bidding.

In either case, unfortunately for the Saudis, neither narrative is taking hold, and the only story sticking is that the still quite immature head of a ruling family of a corrupt and hopelessly regressive petro state murdered a critic, chopped his body into little pieces, and had it shipped to his palace on a private jet.

Adder 10-15-2018 10:34 AM

Re: We are all Slave now.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan (Post 518633)
There's word now that he recorded the whole interview on his apple watch and uploaded it to the cloud.

I will say with zero basis: this sounds like something that you might say to cover the fact that you've been surveiling a foreign state's consulate. (Which I understand is kind of understood and expected).

ferrets_bueller 10-15-2018 11:16 AM

Re: We are all Slave now.
 
You may recall I was roundly booed here for suggesting that Senator Warren release a DNA test to shut up the Orange Lord shouting "Pocahontas." The Senator apparently agreed with me. The results are apparently not conclusive, but are sufficient to make her case for Native American ancestry.

There is now little doubt, if any still existed, she is running in 2020.


http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politi...hlQ?ocid=ientp

Hank Chinaski 10-15-2018 02:19 PM

Re: We are all Slave now.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ferrets_bueller (Post 518637)
You may recall I was roundly booed here for suggesting that Senator Warren release a DNA test to shut up the Orange Lord shouting "Pocahontas." The Senator apparently agreed with me. The results are apparently not conclusive, but are sufficient to make her case for Native American ancestry.

There is now little doubt, if any still existed, she is running in 2020.


http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politi...hlQ?ocid=ientp

I'm 1.6% native American from 23 and me. might be pretty common.

sebastian_dangerfield 10-15-2018 02:31 PM

Re: We are all Slave now.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 518638)
I'm 1.6% native American from 23 and me. might be pretty common.

Between 1/64th and 1/1024th. https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/pol...SVO/story.html

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 10-15-2018 03:17 PM

Re: We are all Slave now.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 518638)
I'm 1.6% native American from 23 and me. might be pretty common.

I have two sisters who got very different results from 23 and me, so I'm a touch skeptical still. I also don't think it matters - I suspect many if not most people with ancestors who lived on the frontier pre-Civil War have some rumors of Native American blood somewhere in their heritage. After years of trying to deny it, suddenly it became cool back in the 60s and our grandparents brought out the old stories. That was real progress.

But Liz is going to have fun with this for a while. She put out a very good video.

Adder 10-15-2018 04:00 PM

Re: We are all Slave now.
 
Heard her on a podcast awhile back talking about her childhood, which was actually a much more appealing political origin story than I realized (relatively poor in Oklahoma). Forcing her to talk more about it seems like an advantage to her, not a hardship.

I haven't bothered to look at her DNA test, but assuming it's like 23 and me and whatnot, it doesn't actually mean that you're descended from native people, and fractional expressions are not comparable, but rather it's a measure of where you genes are found among modern populations.

Kinda don't love playing into the nativist notion of race that the DNA test implies, but what are you gonna do?

Replaced_Texan 10-15-2018 04:26 PM

Re: We are all Slave now.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 518640)
I have two sisters who got very different results from 23 and me, so I'm a touch skeptical still. I also don't think it matters - I suspect many if not most people with ancestors who lived on the frontier pre-Civil War have some rumors of Native American blood somewhere in their heritage. After years of trying to deny it, suddenly it became cool back in the 60s and our grandparents brought out the old stories. That was real progress.

But Liz is going to have fun with this for a while. She put out a very good video.

Yeah, these things aren't very accurate and they are entirely dependent on the pool that they already have. So if there aren't that many of a particular demographic, that demographic may not show. There's a good article from earlier in the year that explains why these things should be taken with a massive grain of salt.

sebastian_dangerfield 10-15-2018 05:19 PM

Re: We are all Slave now.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 518641)
Kinda don't love playing into the nativist notion of race that the DNA test implies, but what are you gonna do?

2. The argument that nature plays a bigger role than nurture, while holding much validity, is abused. The interplay between the two is so complex that to focus on either one, bluntly, as more significant than the other, obscures and avoids a much more thoughtful assessment. This obsession with genetic heritage atomizes and divides people. It's exactly the wrong sort of a fixation for people to busy themselves with at the current time.

Tyrone Slothrop 10-15-2018 06:23 PM

Re: We are all Slave now.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 518641)
Kinda don't love playing into the nativist notion of race that the DNA test implies, but what are you gonna do?

It all depends on the framing. If the question is whether she really is Native American in part, she is playing his game and it's not helping. But it she can turn it into a story about Trump talking big and not delivering, that's different.

Hank Chinaski 10-15-2018 06:38 PM

Re: We are all Slave now.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 518660)
It all depends on the framing. If the question is whether she really is Native American in part, she is playing his game and it's not helping. But it she can turn it into a story about Trump talking big and not delivering, that's different.

Isn't claiming that heritage the game she played first? How is that Trump's game?

Tyrone Slothrop 10-16-2018 01:19 AM

Re: We are all Slave now.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 518661)
Isn't claiming that heritage the game she played first? How is that Trump's game?

There's no political upside in debating about whether she is part Native American, whether or not that's interesting for other reasons. But there is political upside in debating about whether Trump is a big-talking liar who makes promises and walks away from them. Everyone knows that's true, and the political moment will come to talk about it.


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