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-   -   Waiting for Fitzgerald (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=704)

soup sandwich 10-21-2005 05:18 PM

Translation, Please
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
Some of us had former (professional) lives. We evolved into lawyers, driven by the selective pressure of higher paychecks.
I prefer to believe that some higher force guided you to your current profession.

Replaced_Texan 10-21-2005 05:20 PM

Translation, Please
 
Quote:

Originally posted by soup sandwich
I prefer to believe that some higher force guided you to your current profession.
A higher force with a sick sense of humor.

RT, who thinks it's sad that Hank never saw Fantasia, which explains all of this stuff. The god(s) part comes in towards the end, after the dancing hippos part.

Hank Chinaski 10-21-2005 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by baltassoc
Simple. First you have a mutation (or series of mutations) which create single celled organisms that instead of drifting apart stay stuck together.
Okay. that's what your mutation will do. What is the mutation?
Quote:

In the particular environment in which these cells reside, that provides an advantage in collecting resources.
what is the advantage?

Quote:

Ever seen a coral? A sponge? A flatworm?

You've done patents. You know I'm not leeting you go on hindsight reconstruction. How did they get that way?

sebastian_dangerfield 10-21-2005 05:25 PM

Translation, Please
 
Quote:

Originally posted by soup sandwich
But at a deeper level, I don't think the God-stuff should be taught in a classroom because it just isn't scientifically useful. The "God just makes it happen" theory is intellectually lazy and is no use to the scientist at the lab bench.
Faith should be studied in some class. Its an amazing concept when you think about it, and really... what concept has had more of an effect on our history?

Faith is a brilliant lie. Its telling people to believe the opposite of everything around them, everything their senses and common ssense tell them is probably true. And then it tells them that the more they are faced with facts disproving what they believe, the more they must believe the improbable stories the Church tells them to believe.

And the kicker - and this is where the lie of faith is truly brilliant - is that it plays on man's fear of death. The religious leaders unilaterally deem themselves fiunctionaries of God and tell people that to reject them is to reject God and go to Hell. Because there's no way to disprove the fantastic story these religious leaders sell, the masses are left to choose between belief or damnation.

The world would be a lot different if 3000 years ago, a scientist started a church, claimed he knew God, and told people that if they didn't believe what science uncovered, they'd die and go to hell.

We'd all be a lot better off.

Some people are just too fucking stupiud to think for themselves and need somebody else to give them a little fantasy world of beliefs to make them feel like its all going to be ok.

It won't. The faithful, the faithless and the agnostic... we all go to the same place in the end. And we all know it.

baltassoc 10-21-2005 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Okay. that's what your mutation will do. What is the mutation?
A mutation is where the DNA reproduces inaccurately, producing a result that is different from the parent.

Quote:


what is the advantage?

Large surface area allows for more efficient capture of nutrients as they flow by from some source, such as a mineral spring.

Quote:

You've done patents.
Like hell I have. I will not stand for this libel!

Quote:

You know I'm not leeting you go on hindsight reconstruction. How did they get that way?
I don't know. It's been decades since I took biology. Iam, however, prepared to discuss based on quite current information, just how fucked up our Department of Homeland Security is.

DHS sure as hell wasn't intellegently designed.

Hank Chinaski 10-21-2005 05:29 PM

Translation, Please
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Some people are just too fucking stupiud to think for themselves and need somebody else to give them a little fantasy world of beliefs to make them feel like its all going to be ok.

Outline a theory for how a single cell mutates into an animal having organ systems. Then sketch out a test protocal.

Sexual Harassment Panda 10-21-2005 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Okay. that's what your mutation will do. What is the mutation?
I believe it was a G to T transversion at position 433 of the cadherin precursor.

Quote:

what is the advantage?
They can intimidate the other single cells that have not banded together. "Gimme that saccharide or we'll pound ya!"



Quote:

You've done patents. You know I'm not leeting you go on hindsight reconstruction. How did they get that way?
More mutations. Can I send them to you in an Excel spreadsheet?

Hank Chinaski 10-21-2005 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by baltassoc

I don't know. .
179-12

Hank Chinaski 10-21-2005 05:30 PM

Translation, Please
 
Quote:

Originally posted by soup sandwich
I prefer to believe that some higher force guided you to your current profession.
180-12

Hank Chinaski 10-21-2005 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
If sexual selection is ongoing and if chicks like humor- I'm in trouble
181-12

Secret_Agent_Man 10-21-2005 06:03 PM

just say no
 
Quote:

Originally posted by paigowprincess
SAMMY! Who loves ya, baby? How are things on the ole DC board? Still running a tight, on topic ship? Any JWAD sightings? Mario?
Do you know how sometimes, when your sphincter is really tight, you produce a very slender stool?


S_A_M

baltassoc 10-21-2005 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
179-12
How is that, patent boy?

Gattigap 10-21-2005 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by baltassoc
How is that, patent boy?
Don't waste your time with this. It sounds like you ned to go to the airport, pronto, and try standby.

Hank Chinaski 10-21-2005 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
Don't waste your time with this. It sounds like you ned to go to the airport, pronto, and try standby.
182-12

Secret_Agent_Man 10-21-2005 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
I ask, focused example now, how does a single celled animal that splits to reproduce become Sebastian Dangerfield who has a penis that ejects fertilizing sperm, usually into Kleenex, but on occasion into a mate, and someday resulting in offspring.
Spat Diet Coke on that one.

S_A_M

baltassoc 10-21-2005 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
182-12
Outline a theory for how this is somehow a win. Then sketch out a test protocal.(sic)

Gattigap 10-21-2005 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
182-12
Rating those as "wins" helps explain your quest for a 23-fecta.

cheval de frise 10-21-2005 06:18 PM

Oh good lord...irony intended.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Outline a theory for how a single cell mutates into an animal having organ systems. Then sketch out a test protocal.
SHP, soup and balt already laid out the theory. The protocol requires an understanding of which specific mutations have which (cumulative) effects, often at different points in a biochemical and developmental cascade. One has to correlate phenotypic effects with specific genetic changes, understand what direct effect (if any) those changes have on gene expression (i.e., level/developmental timing/duration), regulatory feedback loops, resultant protein sequences and conformational consequences (protein folding is a four-dimensional process)...and so on. These are complex questions but they do have answers. Geneticists and biochemists are working on all of these problems now. As other posters have said, the probability that a SINGLE mutation could be responsible for the development of an entire organ is zero. Scientists are sequencing and deciphering non-human genomes as we type. The mouse genome was published recently, as was (I believe) the chimpanzee genome. Comparative genetics has already provided significant insights. We have a plan for getting the information that will answer your specific question, and are going about obtaining that information...unlike proponents of certain alternative "theories."

By the way, evolution is a fact, not a theory, at least at the micro level. Scientists have directly observed and altered the characteristics of lab bacteria by manipulating their environments over thousands of successive generations. One can selectively "evolve" bacteria that tolerate certain poisons or do not need certain nutrients. Natural processes have also resulted in such organisms. Blind cavefish with vestigial eyes are on the path towards ridding themselves of those organs. Once a transposon-driven (or direct) mutation inactivates the gene(s) responsible for ocular structural development -- and that mutation doesn't result in negative selective pressure because their environment doesn't require eyes -- eyeless cavefish will appear in increased numbers proportional to the overall population (known in human genetics as "the founder effect"). It's a messy process. There is evidence that certain attributes have evolved more than once, then died out as other, more beneficial mutations confer additional advantages in populations not having the original mutation. Environment plays a gigantic role. There are multiple false starts. At the end of the day, though, it is fairly clear how the overall process works. The biochemical details simply take a lot of parallel work (and computer power) to figure out.

Ramen.

CDF (on the one day I happen to visit the board for old times' sake, y'all have a GENETICS discussion???? I'm having flashbacks to MY prior professional life.)

(Edited to fix formatting)

Hank Chinaski 10-21-2005 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by baltassoc
protocal.(sic)
183-12

(and when you criticize spelling, you are starting to hurt people's image of RT and I'm not going to stand here and let that happen.)

Hank Chinaski 10-21-2005 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
Rating those as "wins" helps explain your quest for a 23-fecta.
not quest. achievement. and it was a 25-fecta, thank you.

baltassoc 10-21-2005 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
183-12

(and when you criticize spelling, you are starting to hurt people's image of RT and I'm not going to stand here and let that happen.)
She told me she's never going to sleep with you.

Gattigap 10-21-2005 06:23 PM

Oh good lord...irony intended.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by cheval de frise

CDF (on the one day I happen to visit the board for old times' sake, y'all have a GENETICS discussion???? I'm having flashbacks to MY prior professional life.)

Hang around, chevy. We won't even invite TM.

Hank Chinaski 10-21-2005 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by baltassoc
She told me she's never going to sleep with you.
There was a point your ex-wife would have told you the same.

Replaced_Texan 10-21-2005 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
There was a point your ex-wife would have told you the same.
I'm not liking this comparison. At. All.

Hank Chinaski 10-21-2005 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
I'm not liking this comparison. At. All.
The boy pitches me softballs, and I usually let them go.

baltassoc 10-21-2005 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
I'm not liking this comparison. At. All.
Just because she changed her mind, doesn't mean you have to sleep with him.

Replaced_Texan 10-21-2005 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
The boy pitches me softballs, and I usually let them go.
So you go after the one he loves instead? Low, Hank. Really low.

cheval de frise 10-21-2005 06:32 PM

Oh good lord...irony intended.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
Hang around, chevy. We won't even invite TM.
I've got nothing against TM. I think we both want the same thing at the end of the day -- passions (not to mention frustrations) just ran high during one thread. (Is this the politics board? I guess it is. Good lord 2X).

Can't really stick around very long, but it's good to 'see' y'all -- C

Spanky 10-21-2005 07:45 PM

A Question of Balance
 
Quote:

Originally posted by taxwonk
What I look at is the fact that the people who could buy 50 foot yachts last year are buying 125 foot motor launches this year, while the number of people living day-to-day, one paycheck away from the street is growing by leaps and bounds.
Where do you get this stuff? How about citing some statistics.

Spanky 10-21-2005 07:53 PM

Oh good lord...irony intended.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by cheval de frise
SHP, soup and balt already laid out the theory. The protocol requires an understanding of which specific mutations have which (cumulative) effects, often at different points in a biochemical and developmental cascade. One has to correlate phenotypic effects with specific genetic changes, understand what direct effect (if any) those changes have on gene expression (i.e., level/developmental timing/duration), regulatory feedback loops, resultant protein sequences and conformational consequences (protein folding is a four-dimensional process)...and so on. These are complex questions but they do have answers. Geneticists and biochemists are working on all of these problems now. As other posters have said, the probability that a SINGLE mutation could be responsible for the development of an entire organ is zero. Scientists are sequencing and deciphering non-human genomes as we type. The mouse genome was published recently, as was (I believe) the chimpanzee genome. Comparative genetics has already provided significant insights. We have a plan for getting the information that will answer your specific question, and are going about obtaining that information...unlike proponents of certain alternative "theories."

By the way, evolution is a fact, not a theory, at least at the micro level. Scientists have directly observed and altered the characteristics of lab bacteria by manipulating their environments over thousands of successive generations. One can selectively "evolve" bacteria that tolerate certain poisons or do not need certain nutrients. Natural processes have also resulted in such organisms. Blind cavefish with vestigial eyes are on the path towards ridding themselves of those organs. Once a transposon-driven (or direct) mutation inactivates the gene(s) responsible for ocular structural development -- and that mutation doesn't result in negative selective pressure because their environment doesn't require eyes -- eyeless cavefish will appear in increased numbers proportional to the overall population (known in human genetics as "the founder effect"). It's a messy process. There is evidence that certain attributes have evolved more than once, then died out as other, more beneficial mutations confer additional advantages in populations not having the original mutation. Environment plays a gigantic role. There are multiple false starts. At the end of the day, though, it is fairly clear how the overall process works. The biochemical details simply take a lot of parallel work (and computer power) to figure out.

Ramen.

CDF (on the one day I happen to visit the board for old times' sake, y'all have a GENETICS discussion???? I'm having flashbacks to MY prior professional life.)

(Edited to fix formatting)
Game. Set. Match.

bilmore 10-21-2005 08:03 PM

Who knew?
 
Critical Greenland ice cap found to have been thickening over the last eleven-year period.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science...eut/index.html

Scientists blame global warming.

Sexual Harassment Panda 10-21-2005 08:06 PM

Oh good lord...irony intended.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
Game. Set. Match.
Soup, balt and I get assists. Hank gets the sour taste of defeat as he heads off to fortify himself with the Glenlivet in advance of another weekend of disappointment with the performance of Joey Harrington & Co. Oh well, at least there's hockey on OLN!

Sexual Harassment Panda 10-21-2005 08:07 PM

Who knew?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
Critical Greenland ice cap found to have been thickening over the last eleven-year period.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science...eut/index.html

Scientists blame global warming.
It's the market at work. Obviously Greenland is just better positioned to provide pack ice than the Arctic Ocean is.

Spanky 10-21-2005 08:22 PM

Who knew?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
Critical Greenland ice cap found to have been thickening over the last eleven-year period.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science...eut/index.html

Scientists blame global warming.
What I don't get is why doesn't the water on the surface just drain away into the center of the earth. The water on the surface of the earth is really thin. It is only five miles at the deepeest point and that is nothing compared to how far it is to the center of the earth. If the earth where a basketbal the oceans would be a fine mist on the surface.

So why doesn't the water just drain through the cracks?

notcasesensitive 10-21-2005 08:30 PM

Who knew?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
What I don't get is why doesn't the water on the surface just drain away into the center of the earth. The water on the surface of the earth is really thin. It is only five miles at the deepeest point and that is nothing compared to how far it is to the center of the earth. If the earth where a basketbal the oceans would be a fine mist on the surface.

So why doesn't the water just drain through the cracks?
Perhaps the liquid hot magma keeps it out of the cracks?

(actually I'm not sure I understand your question, but I felt like hearing a bit of Doctor Evil on a Friday afternoon.)

Sexual Harassment Panda 10-21-2005 08:41 PM

Who knew?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
What I don't get is why doesn't the water on the surface just drain away into the center of the earth. The water on the surface of the earth is really thin. It is only five miles at the deepeest point and that is nothing compared to how far it is to the center of the earth. If the earth where a basketbal the oceans would be a fine mist on the surface.

So why doesn't the water just drain through the cracks?
It hits rock eventually. Not my field, but through the magic of Google we learn that there is a large flow of water through the outer layer of the ocean floor, and thus there is an equilibrium set up - water moves down through the rock and at a certain depth, the heat from the earth's core drives it up again - or sideways, or whatever.

There are certain environmental challenges to mapping this flow - like it's friggin' cold down there and the pressure is enough to squeeze you into a lump the size of Karl Rove's heart.

Good question, though.

Spanky 10-21-2005 09:23 PM

Who knew?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by notcasesensitive
Perhaps the liquid hot magma keeps it out of the cracks?

(actually I'm not sure I understand your question, but I felt like hearing a bit of Doctor Evil on a Friday afternoon.)
So my sister took my copy of Collapse for her trip to Tibet. She treats my library as her own. The Gods seem to be against me reading the book any time soon. I also have the World is Flat and am on page 65. I think the World is Flat should be the first book and then Collapse second. I am also going to be spending a signficant amount of time (if not all my time) in Orange County starting November 1st. Yes I will be living behind the Orange curtain and I ain't too happy about it. Maybe we should arrange a GA field trip to the Jarred museum. Doesn't Fringey live in LA?

notcasesensitive 10-21-2005 09:33 PM

Who knew?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
So my sister took my copy of Collapse for her trip to Tibet. She treats my library as her own. The Gods seem to be against me reading the book any time soon. I also have the World is Flat and am on page 65. I think the World is Flat should be the first book and then Collapse second. I am also going to be spending a signficant amount of time (if not all my time) in Orange County starting November 1st. Yes I will be living behind the Orange curtain and I ain't too happy about it. Maybe we should arrange a GA field trip to the Jarred museum. Doesn't Fringey live in LA?
The World Is Flat it is then. I am about a third of the way through it. I am game for a Collapse field trip to the Natural History Museum (conveniently located relatively close to my work). I believe that the exhibit runs through February, but I will double check. I believe I will be able to drag Mr Man along (you likely don't know his work; he is an infrequent Fashion Board poster). Maybe Gattigap too if he is into that sort of thing. Gatti?

I may or may not know fringey, she may or may not live in Los Angeles and she may or may not want to accompany us to the museum. Fringey is nothing if not mysterious. I do my best not to speak for her. Riddle wrapped in a ... yadda yadda yadda.


ETA: It runs until January 17 - http://www.nhm.org/exhibitions/collapse/

Hank Chinaski 10-21-2005 09:58 PM

Oh good lord...irony intended.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
Game. Set. Match.
spanky. i love you, and you know that. But those guys think you're an idiot. So when you say I lose that means I win.

183-12

Hank Chinaski 10-21-2005 09:59 PM

Oh good lord...irony intended.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
Soup, balt and I get assists. Hank gets the sour taste of defeat as he heads off to fortify himself with the Glenlivet in advance of another weekend of disappointment with the performance of Joey Harrington & Co. Oh well, at least there's hockey on OLN!
I'll concede if you agree that Spankster gets to settle who wins all arguments.

184-12


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