Death Pool 2014. 10th Anniversary Special!
 

It is that time of year again! Here are the rules...

(Same rules as last year. And the year before. And the year before that, etc.)

*Each player submits 10 celebrity picks to me via PM (do not post them here).

*I will be the final arbitor as to whether someone qualifies as a celebrity. If you have a local celebrity that you wish to pick, or someone who I might not be familiar with, please include an explanation of why the person should qualify as famous for me. The TM anti-Earl Woods rule is in effect this year - no one qualifies as being a celebrity just because they popped out a famous kid. Also death row inmates (unless they were famous prior to committing their special crime -- the OJ/Saddam Hussein exception), Michael Jackson's accuser, etc. do not qualify.

*All picks should be submitted to me by December 31, 2013 at 11:59 p.m. EST.

*Death Pool will begin on January 1, 2014 at 12:01 a.m. EST. Pool will close December 31, 2014 at midnight EST.

*I will post a listing of all picks here once they have been tabulated. If you wish to pick anyone of questionable celebrity status, get your list to me early to make sure I accept all picks.

*Ties in final number of deaths picked will battle it out in the Hank Chinaski tiebreaker, which will measure the difference between the ages of the celebrities picked and 100. Celebrities over 100 will not garner tied players any points in the tiebreaker. The younger the dead celebrity, the more points! So go for it and pick Prince Harry if you care to. Or an Olsen twin. Or Amy Winehouse! Wait, not Amy Winehouse.

*In the event of any need for rules clarification, I will post those here. In the event of any dispute as to how the rules should work, I will have the final say. Though I may solicit opinions of pool entrants.

*If you pick someone and they die before the pool period starts, you may resubmit a new entry, but no geezer who drops before the beginning time of the pool will count as a hit for you (though if on your 2013 pool list, they will count in that pool).

*I can't promise that I will catch every single celebrity death during the year, so I urge each of you to watch for stories confirming the death of your selected celebrities. If I miss a published death, just shoot me an e-mail with a link and I'll post the hit on this board.

*Mmmm Burger addition to the pool rules -- I'll update the posting with the picks throughout the year to show in red picks that have, uh, cashed it in. Make sure you post celebrity deaths here and I'll do my best to get them marked in a timely manner so everyone can follow along to see who is in the lead.

*Winner gets no monetary reward. What do you think this is - a greedy associates board? But you do get to boast about it for all of calendar year 2014. Boasting is always fun!

*Person (or people) with the fewest hits during the year will grab the Angel of Mercy title.

*In case you care, here is the rundown of winners of prior Celebrity Death Pools:

2004 - Fugee
2005 - barely_legal
2006 - Mr. Man
2007 - tmdiva
2008 - tmdiva
2009 - barely_legal
2010 - Diane Keaton
2011 - Fugee
2012 - learnedmano
2013 - it will probably be barely_legal again!

*Have fun and good luck!

Re: Death Pool 2014. 10th Anniversary Special!
 

So far I have 11 entries. Keep them coming! Happy New Years, everyone!

Re: Death Pool 2014. 10th Anniversary Special!
 

I just keep recycling this unbreakable list of immortals. I mean they have to go sometime, right?

Re: Death Pool 2014. 10th Anniversary Special!
 

This news had to wait until today?

https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/418442858182348800

Death Pool Lists (with a caveat)
 

learnedmano (Angel of Death 2012)
1. Kirk Douglas
2. Valerie Harper
3. Harper Lee
4. Casey Kasem
5. Randy Travis
6. Mickey Rooney
7. Pope (Emeritus) Benedict
8. Abe Vigoda
9. Fidel Castro
10. Sam Simon

Hank Chinaski
1. Kirk Douglas
2. Zsa Zsa Gabor
3. David Crosby
4. Abe Vigoda
5. James Garner
6. George HW Bush
7. Mickey Rooney
8. 50 Cent
9. Fidel Castro
10. Billy Graham

Jack Manfred
1. Rev. Billy Graham
2. Olivia de Havilland
3. Liza Minelli
4. Mickey Rooney
5. Zsa Zsa Gabor
6. Eli Wallach
7. Pete Seeger
8. George HW Bush
9. Fidel Castro
10. Nancy Reagan

taxwonk
1. James Garner (Sorry, NotBob)
2. Eli Wallach
3. Henry Kissinger
4. George H. W. Bush
5. Fidel Castro
6. Billy Graham
7. Pete Seeger
8. Bob Dole
9. Olivia De Havilland
10. Vera Lynn

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
1. Robert Mugabe
2. Prince Phillip
3. Fidel Castro
4. Jerry Lewis
5. Zsa Zsa Gabor
6. Billy Graham
7. Lee Kuan Yew
8. Nancy Reagan
9. George H.W. Bush
10. Kirk Douglas

bold_n_brazen
1. Abe Vigoda
2. Kirk Douglas
3. Zsa Zsa Gabor
4. Monty Hall
5. Olivia de Havilland
6. Mickey Rooney
7. Bob Barker
8. Billy Graham
9. Mohammed Ali
10. Judge Joseph Wapner

Greedy, Greedy, Greedy
1. Billy Graham
2. Lawrence Ferlingetti
3. Queen Elizabeth
4. Pete Seeger
5. Thomas Menino
6. Olivia de Haviland
7. Fidel Castro
8. Ariel Sharon
9. Robert Mugabe
10. Hosni Mubarak

Atticus Grinch
1. Valerie Harper
2. Zsa Zsa Gabor
3. Billy Graham
4. Mickey Rooney
5. Ariel Sharon
6. Kirk Douglas
7. Don Pardo
8. Muhammad Ali
9. Robert Mugabe
10. Fidel Castro

Flinty_McFlint
1. Lindsay Lohan
2. Kirk Douglas
3. Fidel Castro
4. Zsa Zsa Gabor
5. Pat Robertson
6. Billy Graham
7. Valerie Harper
8. Chad Ochocino/Chad Johnson
9. Michael Douglas
10. Terrell Owens

Miss Maine
1. Fidel Castro
2. Zsa Zsa Gabor
3. Billy Graham
4. Nancy Reagan
5. Micky Rooney
6. Muhammid Ali
7. George HW Bush
8. Ariel Sharon
9. Prince Phillip
10. Pope Francis

Not Bob
1. George H.W. Bush
2. Billy Graham
3. Henry Kissinger
4. Prince Phillip
5. Lindsay Lohan
6. Ralph Kiner
7. Muhammad Ali
8. Courtney Love
9. Nancy Reagan
10. Fidel Castro

Sparklehorse
1. George H.W. Bush
2. Ariel Sharon
3. Zsa Zsa Gabor
4. Paula Deen
5. Robert Mugabe
6. Bobby Brown
7. Dick Cheney
8. Nancy Reagan
9. Lindsay Lohan
10. Fidel Castro

barely_legal (Angel of Death 2005, 2009 and 2013)
1. Michael Shumacher
2. Zsa Zsa Gabor
3. Fidel Castro
4. Sam Simon
5. Daisy Berkowitz
6. Clive James
7. Eli Wallach
8. Kirk Douglas
9. Valerie Harper
10. Ian Brady

Fugee (Angel of Death 2004 and 2011)
1. Zsa Zsa Gabor
2. Valerie Harper
3. Wilco Johnson
4. Casey Kasem
5. Muhammed Ali
6. Fidel Castro
7. Amanda Bynes
8. Stephen Hawking
9. Michael Schumacher
10. Clive James

Adder
1. Walter Mondale
2. Louie Anderson
3. Garrison Keillor
4. James Hong
5. Bob Dylan
6. John Madden
7. Loni Anderson
8. Ed Asner
9. John Roswell Camp (aka John Sandford)
10. Mary Tyler Moore

LessInSF
1. Fidel Castro
2. Billy Graham
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Zsa Zsa Gabor
5. Mullah Omar
6. Ariel Sharon
7. Dick Cheney
8. George H.W. Bush
9. Nancy Reagan
10. Ruth Bader Ginisburg

notcasesensitive
1. Fidel Castro
2. Kirk Douglas
3. Edward Furlong
4. Zsa Zsa Gabor
5. Billy Graham
6. Valerie Harper
7. Stephen Hawking
8. Harper Lee
9. Nancy Reagan
10. Randy Travis

17 entries this year. Most surprising no show is tmdiva (Angel of Death 2007 and 2008). Sniff.

CAVEAT: I'd like to put the last two entries on barely_legal's list to a vote. I don't think Ian Brady is necessarily a celebrity (for the reasons I listed last year -- not known here, doesn't even have his own wiki page) and I am not sure about Helen Fawkes. Is a former BBC foreign correspondent a celebrity? Maybe, I don't know if she was on the news every night for 20 years or if she was on a couple of times. Do people know who she is and if so, is it for her time on the news or because she is sick and has made this bucket list (I think if she really famous for being sick, she doesn't qualify)? So, I encourage each of you to send me a PM or reply to this thread with your thoughts on those two entries. I'll do as the majority votes. I'll keep voting open until Monday night. If either or both are disqualified, I have qualified alternates from barely_legal that I can sub in their place...

Re: Death Pool 2014. 10th Anniversary Special!
 

Re: Death Pool 2014. 10th Anniversary Special!
 

I thought we decided a person didn't become a celebrity just because s/he commited heinous crimes (although John Demjanjuk might be only that) a couple of years ago.

Becoming a celebrity on the basis of anticipated death seems like it shouldn't count. On the other hand, she's enterprising and a so is Barely for picking her.

Re: Death Pool 2014. 10th Anniversary Special!
 

this page is now a polling place, and there is no soliciting votes allowed within 100 yards of a polling place.

Re: Death Pool 2014. 10th Anniversary Special!
 

I don't really care if my picks are determined to be real celebrities or not -- that's why I submitted alternates when I sent in my list. But, I don't think the test should rely on whether a person is only famous for committing a crime. Does that mean that we couldn't put Charles Manson on our lists? Or the Lockerbie bomber? I remember a few people, including me, having him a few years ago and I don't recall any debate about whether he was a celebrity, even though he's only famous for committing a heinous crime. What about Jack Kevorkian -- wasn't he on a few lists in years past? I would argue that there are tons of people that have been on our lists over the years that have not been questioned, even though they were only famous for committing crimes. Or maybe I was the only person who ever had those people on my list, and y'all have just caught on to my methods?

As to Fawkes, I was hesitant to include her for the reasons that NCS stated, but it was such a softball, I couldn't resist.

Re: Death Pool 2014. 10th Anniversary Special!
 

It's getting late in the voting process, and I've already voted, so don't take this as crass advice, it is simply me trying to be helpful: If you participated in TMBD2 you might want to repost the photo. People on the fence move for any number of reasons.

Not Waking Up, even for Little Susie
 

Phil Everly, of the Everly Brothers, dead at 74.

So influential for so long. From The Beatles to Elliott Smith, and a whole lot of great music in between.

Re: Not Waking Up, even for Little Susie
 

Are you a vampire?

Re: Death Pool 2014. 10th Anniversary Special!
 

wrong board

Re: Death Pool 2014. 10th Anniversary Special!
 

I agree that there are a few people who are so well known for their crimes that they are notorious and therefore they qualify as a "celebrity". Charles Manson is a perfect example.* My big question for the guy on your list is does he qualify? I don't think everyone who ever killed anybody (even in cases that got a lot of press at the time) is a celebrity and my personal belief as to the pool of notorious criminals who should be included here is that it should be quite small.

Is the point of this game to find the most obscure possible person who possibly could be a "celebrity"? I think not. If you are looking up people you don't already know who appear on death watch lists on the internet, I think that is sort of against the spirit of the celebrity death pool. Just my opinion, but I guess my opinion sort of matters here. By including these questionable people who I then need to research and waste my mental energy on deciding whether technically they are celebrities, it makes my job running this pool less fun.

My decision in this case (taking into account the feedback I got on the board and via PM) is that I'll still let Ian Brady in because I let him in last year, but that doesn't mean he qualifies as a celebrity by my definition and I really think he's a lame pick. Fawkes is disqualified and I'll sub Valerie Harper in her place. I kind of wish you (including the larger you of all participants) would listen to what I'm saying here, and maybe take it to heart in the future when making your picks. But maybe that is asking too much.

Hank has suggested several times a NYT obits test, but I don't really like that test because I find it potentially over-inclusive (especially in this day and age of every news outlet competitively covering every possible story). I think in the end who qualifies as a celebrity is always going to have a subjective element to it. Now you all know a little more the way my definition of celebrity tends to go...


*I'm not gonna look it up, but if he's technically on death row, I don't think he's an eligible pick here (even if CA doesn't currently apply the death penalty).

Re: Death Pool 2014. 10th Anniversary Special!
 

suggest it only to ease your hassle

Paig's sis runs a pool and uses it, and lord knows this board has always benefited from the advice given by that fam.

Re: Death Pool 2014. 10th Anniversary Special!
 

First, please accept my thanks for moderating this every year. It brings a weird thrill into an otherwise drab life.

Second, I apologize for treating your question as rhetorical. I feel especially guilty because it drives me CRAZY when I ask similar questions ("Hey guys, which approach is more consistent with what we're trying to accomplish here, A or B?") and I get no responses, or responses only from the people who want to change what the organization is trying to accomplish.

That said, to the extent it helps with this issue going forward next year, I have no objection to the use of celebrities whose famousness originated from crime. The purpose served by the no-death-row rule isn't to redefine "celebrity"; it's to avoid the hazard to the game of allowing picks whose death is a scheduled event, period. There is no "reward" to bad people for making them famous enough for a death pool, as I see it.

My policy preference is to expand the definition of celebrity as broadly as possible so the DP lists don't become permutations of the same 25 people. I'm guilty of adopting the best people from last year's lists, and anyone who takes a gamble by adding in new blood is making this more fun, not less (IMHO). It would be a shame if everybody's list were the nine oldest people on aretheydeadyet.com plus one person who was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer last year. The truly memorable hits here were Mindy McCready and Amy Winehouse — indisputably celebrities, yes, but we admire the spirit of gambling in spending a precious spot of 10 on something that risky.

I guess what I'm saying is that I respect your desire to make the right decision about eligibility, but as a player I'm not terribly disturbed by other people's idea of who's a celebrity. If you decided to get out of the gate keeping business, I wouldn't feel like the game had gone to shit.

Re: Death Pool 2014. 10th Anniversary Special!
 

hmm, on a Paig's sis's pool, some wag is now crowing about Kim's Uncle's wife. the wife of the guy who got fed to the dogs was his pick? WTF- not right- I just ncs-ed his ass on that one. I mean shit, they arrested 80 of his family- the 10 youngest would be really good picks-

Re: Death Pool 2014. 10th Anniversary Special!
 

Just Wonking here, but Manson is not on death row. When the death penalty was ruled unconstitutional, all prisoners sentenced to death had their sentences commuted to life (and not life without parole, which is why you read about his parole hearings every couple of years). California's Death Row is at San Quentin. Charles Mansion is housed at Corcoran. Sirhan Sirhan, who also has a life sentence instead of a death sentence, is down in San Diego, but I could have sworn he was just up the road a bit at Pleasant Valley. CDCR must have moved him. You can track your favorite California prisoner, even if they're not a celebrity, here. The nice thing about looking up Sirhan Sirhan, is of course, that you can search under his first OR his last name.

I also agree with ncs's decisions, and not just because they mirror my votes. Atticus is right about the rationale for the "No Death Row" rule, but I think the reason that the Amy Winehouse and Mindy McCready hits were so memorable was, in large part, because they were actually celebrities, not the anchor of the morning news in Portland, but someone the board knew about BEFORE the game.*

* I didn't know who Mindy McCready was until a couple years ago, and it was because of her problems with substance abuse and the law, but then again, my taste in female country singers runs more to Kacey Musgraves, who should have gotten a best album Grammy nomination instead of merely one for best country album.**

** None of the above statement should be taken as a dig against Neko Case, whose music I still adore. It's just that with her last album, I think she's completed her transition from alt-country to alt-rock.

Re: Death Pool 2014. 10th Anniversary Special!
 

I'm still waiting for my Terrell Owens or Ochocinco picks to hit, but I must say that I was a little bit proud to have gotten those two picks. Even if I never actually win this thing.

Re: Death Pool 2014. 10th Anniversary Special!
 

I'd had Amy Winehouse on my list for a couple of years and the year she died was the year I forgot to submit my list by New Year's Eve. I still feel like that was my greatest death pool achievement.

Re: Death Pool 2014. 10th Anniversary Special!
 

I think it's also important to add that the level of somebody's "celebrity" varies greatly depending on who the audience is. I couldn't name 10 professional soccer players bc I don't care about the sport, but I'm sure there are "famous" soccer players that nobody else here would question are celebrities even though I'd have to google to figure out who they are. However, I'm fascinated by serial killers, and have been since middle school when I first read Helter Skelter. So yeah, I know about the Moors Murderers because I've read about them in many books about serial killers and they seem, to me, to be more famous than people who starred in a couple of movies in the 1940s that nobody has watched in 50 years, but have their own Wikipedia pages.

Re: Death Pool 2014. 10th Anniversary Special!
 

I looked back and you were the first, back in 2007-8, but I swear I didn't copy you :). Props to Sparklehorse for being the most prescient though.

Re: Death Pool 2014. 10th Anniversary Special!
 

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/11/world/...html?hpt=hp_t1

Sharon

Re: Death Pool 2014. 10th Anniversary Special!
 

How many years have I waited for him to die? Maybe getting a hit this early is a sign. Let the rest of my picks pile on.

Re: Death Pool 2014. 10th Anniversary Special!
 

We can't possibly count a man who was in a coma for 8 years can we? Bad form to pick him. Perhaps if he had died from something other than the cause of the coma, say if he'd been hit by a car, or shot, then it might be valid, but if we count this there is no integrity to the game.

Re: Death Pool 2014. 10th Anniversary Special!
 

I'll tell you what's bad form: having an argument with a scoreboard. Suck it, loser!

Re: Death Pool 2014. 10th Anniversary Special!
 

Who wants to win that way anyway? Let them have their easy, shallow victory. It will give them no succor when they are cold and alone of their own deathbeds'.

Re: Death Pool 2014. 10th Anniversary Special!
 

You go wishing nice Mary Tyler Moore will kick and give you some points. One thing about Sharon - not a lot of tears at scoring points off him.

Re: Death Pool 2014. 10th Anniversary Special!
 

do you wish the Boston police should all die for how they responded to terrorist bombings?

Re: Death Pool 2014. 10th Anniversary Special!
 

Personally thought it was excessive when Boston PD occupied Chechnya.

Re: Death Pool 2014. 10th Anniversary Special!
 

posting shit that you know is sophistry? off my corner ho.... unless you think what you posted makes sense, although it clearly doesn't. In that case, Off Adder's corner ho.

Re: Death Pool 2014. 10th Anniversary Special!
 

I think the fact that he's been in a coma for 8 years is a good reason to count him. I thought about putting him on my list this year but didn't see any indication he wouldn't keep going for yet another year so I didn't choose him.

It would be a different story if he had been declared brain dead.

Don't be such a spoilsport, Hank. Kudos to those who dedicated a spot on their lists to him.

Re: Death Pool 2014. 10th Anniversary Special!
 

Sounds like you feel guilty for thinking about picking him, like Jimmy Carter lusting in his heart. I appreciate your admission. I expect those that did pick him will forfeit their points. We will see.

Re: Death Pool 2014. 10th Anniversary Special!
 

Quit being such a whiny little bitch. It's not like we have money or sex riding on this.

Re: Death Pool 2014. 10th Anniversary Special!
 

Guilty??? No way! I'm bummed I assumed he'd hang on for another year!

You've just got sour grapes because you didn't pick him yourself.

Re: Death Pool 2014. 10th Anniversary Special!
 

2. Next year I"m doing some research.

Re: Death Pool 2014. 10th Anniversary Special!
 

But winning gives you some swagger, ah, right?

Re: Death Pool 2014. 10th Anniversary Special!
 

I wouldn't know. I have never even come close. I thought I was a lock for Angel of Mercy for a couple of years.

Re: Death Pool 2014. 10th Anniversary Special!
 

I think the fact that 30% of us have picked him year after year for the last 7-8 years and only in the year that he dies does Hank raise an objection is a good reason to count the pick.

Re: Death Pool 2014. 10th Anniversary Special!
 

I'm not paid to argue hypotheticals. And i don't shit unless I'm being paid.