Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield
The gay rights movement succeeded in getting laws on the books. The architect of their SCOTUS argument, Ted Olson, had a personal conversion on the issue, but ultimately delivered a very logical explanation of why they have the right to marry.
Was there an underlying hearts and minds movement? Yes. But what amount of credit does it deserve in comparison to the legal and legislative strategy? Given the short time table from the movement's gaining initial traction to the SCOTUS ruling, I can't agree that it was the biggest factor. But yes -- it was most certainly an essential thing at the beginning.
Justice reform needs to succeed in putting laws on the books. I thought the dam burst opening with the coke/crack sentencing disparity repeal, and Booker and Paul's initiative, and then Ferguson. But then it just fizzled. It was lost in a flurry of murders and acquittals and raw understandable anger, countered with racism.
It's fine to have angry community reactions. How could these things not occur? But where's the legislative initiative? Where's the unified, organized movement? There needs to be a conflict like Prop 8 that focuses all of the nation's attention on the issue. I don't see that happening right now. The heat and anger is dissipated and splintered. And I think that's a situation the opponents of sentencing reform seek to perpetuate.
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Thank you for responding. But what are you trying to say? Previously you complained that those who are agitating around race and civil rights are not focused and sometimes say stupid things that turn other people off. Undeniably, this has been true of the gay rights movement. On some level, you understand that, so now you have shifted to using the narrow legal victories won by the gay rights crowd as some sort of model for civil rights. But here's the thing: The victory you tout for gay rights was getting the Supreme Court to treat gay rights like race -- in other words, a victory already won, decades ago, by the folks you are dumping on. If there is a lesson in gay rights about how to get social change around race, you have not found it. Instead, you have inadvertently pointed out that your complaints about the civil rights efforts are silly.
What you refer to as justice reform isn't a narrow legal or legislative issue. It goes to the way that the police and the justice system comprehensively, systematic preserve an unequal social order, a social order that benefits (I could say privileges but I didn't give you a trigger warning) some people and disadvantages other people. You know this because you've seen it. Not surprisingly, a lot of people who get relative benefits don't want it changed. You're cynical enough to get this, too. A unified, organized movement? Sure, that would be nice. If only it were that easy.
