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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield
The system is not rigged to discriminate against Blacks. Parts of it are, and in certain geographic areas, far more so than others. And bigots infect the systems you cite as much as they infect any other system.
But I can't agree that there is an active "system" at work the primary goal of which is to advantage any group over another.
What you are talking about are persistent vestiges of a system that are damn hard to eradicate. That's a much different statement than the accusation that the system is still designed to effect racist ends.
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You are, of course, missing the point. Anyone with half a brain would assume you were doing it purposefully, but I'll give you the "benefit" of the doubt.
All of the institutions I listed above were originally designed to benefit white people either (i) at the expense of black people or (ii) purposefully to oppress black people. That is not debatable. What remains are systems that
continue to benefit white people at the expense of black people (sometimes purposefully--see: voter repression).
Your recharacterization of this issue into one in which you imply critics of these systems are claiming that there is one 'active "system" at work the
primary goal* of which is to advantage any group over another' is intentional misdirection. And it's because you (and yes, I me
you) would rather not deal with the fact that these institutions work the way they do. Whether it's your guilt that you benefit from it or your intellectual laziness in not wanting to address the actual criticism is not my problem. But every time you do it, here or at cocktail parties, someone should point out how full of shit you are.
If
you--and you're a highly educated person no matter how much evidence you spew to the contrary--can't discuss the topic reasonably, your response is Exhibit I in the overwhelming mountain of evidence that tells every person of color that white people will not take any action to remedy the current state of affairs because they will not give up the benefits they receive. They won't even
talk about it. They will either outright deny it exists or reframe the discussion into one they can easily deny (e.g., "There's no racist conspiracy," "There isn't one system," "It's not the primary goal," "We need a smoking gun," etc.).
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield
BUT, huge caveat here: The War on Blacks (there's no flippancy intended there; that's factual) and our justice system, which grossly emphasizes broken windows crime over white collar crime, are designed and implemented to jail and marginalize Black people -- even more so, poor Black people (and poor people generally). These are systems that remain indefensible, and only exist to effect racist aims.
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Agreed. But I wouldn't focus so tightly on "broken windows" policing. The whole criminal justice system benefits white people and disadvantages black people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield
My views of Sessions are well known here. If I'd the cure for cancer and he was Stage 4, I'd ignore him. I did not expect Trump to seriously use the racist Nixon "law n' order" shit if he someone hit the lottery and actually got elected. I made a mistake in that assumption. And, I was not aware of his Central Park 5 position when I voted.
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Are you actually admitting that this statement is flat-out wrong, then?:
"I think most people reconcile it with, 'The Democrats won't do much different in re justice reform.'"
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield
I've actually dealt with this issue up close. I advocated for humane treatment of prisoners in a policy situation where, for reasons I won't get into here, I had some say. The public is very anti-prisoner. Very pro-tough-on-crime. Both D and R. They don't give a fuck about these people. The aim is to spend minimal dollars on rehabilitating people in jail, and taking a cruel position actually garners one votes.
No one with any power to do something about justice reform gives a fuck because politicians don't make it an issue, as it will make them look weak, and ex-cons have no say. They're subhumans to the average voter. YMMV. But I learned this, the hard way.
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We are talking about the justice system, remember? You said, "Nobody gives a fuck about justice reform because nobody gives a fuck about victims of the justice system." You have now narrowed your focus to prisons. And you have
still failed to define the class of people you're talking about when you say, "No one cares."
People most certainly care about the injustices inherent in the justice system. And this is a good opportunity to show you how racist institutions affect your perception.
The people who care and who are most affected have had their voices muted as a result of (i) socio-economic disadvantages as a result of historical second-class citizenship (and that's shorthand for a whole bunch of shit), (ii) their power at the voting booth being diminished through
rampant voter repression, and (iii) the general racist attitude by whites who have segregated themselves from black people to levels higher than the era of actual, state-sponsored segregation that black people are more prone to crime and are generally more dangerous.
If your definition of "nobody" consists of white people who are discussing whether or not this issue is a political winner in suburban PA (or almost anywhere, really), I don't know what to tell you. I guess, you're right? But that conclusion, absent the rest of the conversation about why that is, seems fairly insignificant doesn't it?
TM
*You must have known that this stupid fucking trick wouldn't work, right? Does it ever work for you?
