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[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

No.

First, we were talking about how best to address white people's feelings in order to effectively move past the defensive stage so that we can effect change. If white people feel like racism is solely about a person being "bad," they will throw everything they have in their arsenal to fight that characterization, never acknowledge their own racism, and we get nowhere. Therefore, there has been an evolution in how we approach racism so that we avoid those feelings altogether.

Second, either you believe race is a social construct or you do not. If you do, there is no point in examining how much "responsibility" a disadvantaged group has for its circumstances because their actions are necessarily influenced by their disadvantages. Any discussion of a race's responsibility for their circumstances is ridiculous because if there was no such thing as racism, their circumstances would be exactly the same as everyone else's in this country. People who say shit like, "I understand that black people have had it tough, but they have to start taking responsibility for where they are at some point," are either deluded as to what has happened and is currently happening in this country or are racist as fuck.

It's a ridiculous discussion. "How much responsibility did French Huguenots have for their slaughter by the majority Catholics?" "How much responsibility did Gypsies have for their predicament in Nazi Germany?" "How much responsibility do Iranian gays have for their persecution in Iran"? -- Questions that exactly no one has ever asked, and for good reason.

eta:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

There is a way to make a scientific assessment of instances where the victims of a systemic oppression acquired responsibility for remaining oppressed.

Please give a published example of "a scientific assessment of instances where the victims of a systemic oppressed acquired responsibility for remaining oppressed." Patty Hearst doesn't count.