Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I'm not debating with you. I'm sure there are voters like what you describe. You just have an odd fixation on that particular constellation of views, and they shine much brighter in your firmament. Just a coincidence that their views so resemble your own? Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
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That's simple: You underestimate or discount them. Much like we all underestimated and discounted the shy Trump voter. (I know Hank. It is noted that you did not.)
I think, relatedly, you also tend to post things that view facts as you want them to be rather than as they are. To discuss what's going to happen in 2020, it has to be looked at as a horse race. To discuss the media, and why people are ignoring it, you have to look at the rare voices like Taibbi, who are explaining why the narratives the media used to be able to turn into consensus are failing. (Because people rightly don't trust our factionalized media.)
I also think you, and I don't mean you alone here, tend to bristle at the suggestion that the cynical or self-interested voter is of the most importance. This, again, is a desire to see a country different than the country we have. The "moderate" R and D are rather similar if you put them in a position where they have to choose between a noxious social agenda and a performing economy with low taxes (Trump) or a noble progressive social agenda and a questionable economy and high taxes (Warren or Bernie). Many if not most will vote in a ruthlessly pragmatic manner. I cited the Biden voter as a cake-and-eat-it sort because that's what he is. I know him. I meet him every day. He's my entire social scene. He's quick to tell you he detests Trump, but is really scared of Warren or Bernie. And if forced to choose between his country and his family’s finances, well...
He's quite real, and he's legion. That he happens to resemble me isn't coincidence. I'm a pretty common animal. You may not like that, but citing facts and stories that carve around that, or stupidly asserting I'm writing shit, doesn't change that. And you know it.
ETA: One other thing I think you discount is the public's interest in this impeachment. I suspect you find Trump's abuse of power odious. A number of people do. But a much larger number expects this sort of thing from politicians. Reagan had Iran/Contra, the Clintons were eternally in some form of mud (often unfairly, but still in the muck), Cheney lied about almost everything. Obama and Bush I were generally honest, but Bush I was labeled a liar for "no new taxes" and Obama was mired with endless right wing attacks (the Lois Lerner IRS investigation, the ACA knocking some people off their health care, as he claimed it wouldn't, the Holder Doctrine) which, fair or not, gave off the impression he was not above "Chicago politics." I don't think people are terribly surprised to find their Presidents make Faustian bargains and engage in shady behavior. I think they think that's just part of how the sausage is made. You might be projecting your views on a broader population that is not comprised of lawyers who hold a reverence for the letter of the law. Most people just want jobs and a future. They don't care about what's going on in Ukraine. They turn off the channel when they hear about Trump. And they turn it off when they hear people complaining about Trump.
This is why Bernie and Warren are getting traction: They talk jobs and the economy. Every R in Congress felt emboldened to vote no on impeachment yesterday. And that'll be nearly repeated in the Senate, regardless of what comes out in the hearings Schiff is planning. So yeah, I like talking about moderates. Because you ignore them at your party's peril.
