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[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I do drift the other way. I've championed almost every person who's been mobbed. I recall most recently defending Ilhan Omar against charges of antisemitism. I've stated Wilkinson is a victim of cancel culture, whether he believes it or not.

Undeniably, something is going on, but "cancel culture" is a stupid name and most of the people who are on about it are acting in bad faith. We can both agree that Wilkinson shouldn't have been fired -- that he was a victim of sorts. I don't see that it adds anything at all to say he was a victim of "cancel culture" instead of saying that he was the victim of a bad-faith right-wing hit job and poor management at the Niskanen Center.

At this point, I think it's also fair to point out -- well, I'll just quote another Elizabeth Spiers post, about McLean and Pesca getting canned:

But sometimes in cases like these there are other factors—and I feel the need to say this because a lot of people don’t seem to consider it. The thing about modern workplace culture is that we have feedback systems that are designed to give people warnings before they get fired or seriously disciplined for bad behavior. Sometimes lots of them. And so the thing that ends up being the precipitating event that leads to a firing or an encouraged resignation might not be the biggest or most important event. I don’t know if that’s the case with either of these guys, but media accounts allude to more than just one mention of the n-word in Peru, and more than a single Slack mention. So I think it’s important to keep in mind what you do know—and what you don’t.

The concept of "cancel culture" seems to require that you ignore this kind of complexity. HR reports to me at our company. We would not fire someone for a one-off of this sort, I don't think (it's never come up). But when you are looking to get rid of someone, you start to build a record, and if something like this were the final straw for someone against whom we'd been building a record? Why not?

When I take shots at the woke it's because they're a religion. Religions seek to shut down that which critiques their narrative.

This is silly. Apart from having fundamental beliefs that you disagree with, I don't see the similarity.

Agreed. You've caused me to reassess the source of my disdain. I hadn't considered this angle, but that's due to my incredible lack of self awareness. This driver of my thinking is hiding in plain sight.

Wow! That was fun.

Perhaps that is hyperbole in some circumstances. But in others, it is not. Take this person on the Mandalorian. She says something dumb - that to be a Republican in Hollywood is akin to being a Jew in the Holocaust. Incredibly stupid comment, but is it something warranting her firing and blackballing in Hollywood?

I do not watch the Mandalorian, I do not know this actress, and I'm not totally clear on the facts. But I do not believe that she said only one dumb thing, and I heard that Disney cut her loose, but I did not hear anything about being blackballed. What she said is arguably anti-Semitic. Assume it is. Why should Disney put up with that? What's in it for Disney? Why worry about her more than Jews who have to live with the climate she creates?

I agree that the real problem is with those in power. The corporate toadying to these dim masses of zealots is truly loathsome. But this toadying happens for a reason. These mobs scare institutions into making a very cynical and cowardly but quite rational risk assessment:

It is better to get on the bandwagon than wind up in the dock.

Oh, that's nonsense. What would have happened to the Niskanen Center if they had kept Wilkinson? They're not worried about "winding up in the dock." They don't like controversy, so they opt out.

So how do they do that? In the case of right wing cancellation, call the cancelers bigots, intolerant, or white supremacists. You can do that to the right these days. This delegitimizes the critics. In the case of left wing cancelers, sacrifice an Andrew Sullivan or two.

That sounds fun. Can we do that? Maybe if we get some of the woke religious people involved, we can make it a religious sacrifice. Actually, if you made it really religious, Sullivan might be into it too.

One day, and soon, this mob behavior will be broken. One of these mobs will fuck with a Bezos, or a Musk, who'll stand up to them, refuse their demands, and demonstrate that they can be ignored. But until then, we've got a shitshow on our hands where idiot masses are controlling scared corporate hierarchies.

No, it won't be broken. It happens because it's performative, not because people really want something done.

Discourse on complex issues should be within rules established by elites. The masses should be allowed to bleat as they like, but corporations and institutions should ignore them when they insist on silly policies or demand firings. They should be compelled to either develop higher powers of critical thinking or not be paid attention to in the public square.

Not even sure what to say about this. Um, whatever dude.

You critique me for not taking on the right more often. Well, a big part of the reason for that is I cannot engage people who live in fantasy. How does one even attempt to consider the ravings of a QAnon follower? How does one engage a person who insists an election was stolen where the math renders that impossible?

Res ipsa loquitur.

YMMV, but I just ignore the bad faith arguments.

But not everyone does. That's why the people who make them keep doing it. If everyone was like you, everything would be pretty much perfect, I'm sure.