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Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall
I love Samantha Bee and I don't think I've ever disagreed with her.
What bothers me so much about this specific example is that it is so very one-sided. I hate that Ansari hasn't recounted the night from his perspective. He would be crazy to do it, but I think in a case like this (where it is being used to have real and sincere conversations about important issues), it would be nice if we could have a fuller view of what happened.
So what happens with the eggshell "plaintiff?" And to be sure, I'm not labeling Grace as such. But if some woman thought she was sending clear signals, but then actively kissed and touched the other person, received and gave oral sex, and felt like it was a terrible awful experience, wasn't respected, was coerced, and ended up going public, is the fact that--in my hypothetical--her perspective is the only one that is given credence or exposure problematic? Obviously this is a tortured and unrealistic hypo, but if we had Ansari's full perspective, would some of what Grace said be given the side-eye?
Hell, one GA kissed me full on the lips at a GA meet-up.* And she tried it two more times. I sure as hell wasn't hitting on her. But she told more than a few people that I kissed her. And we all know patentpara accused me of hitting on her and making her feel uncomfortable because she was angry. If I hadn't said anything in either case, what would Samantha Bee be saying about those women? What would she be saying about me?**
TM
*No, not paigow.
**I hate this shit. Given how little attention harassment stories have received and how little support victims have received historically, and how unlikely it is that anyone who had a terrible sexual experience would come forward for no reason, it makes me ill to be bringing this stupid shit up like I'm some white dude complaining about reverse discrimination. But here I am doing it anyway. Damn it. Can I blame Canada?
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This is not analogous to silly reverse discrimination claims. This is an argument that one standard applies to one sex, a different standard to another.
The uncomfortable part of this is some believing that one sex’s failure to grasp the other’s cues is entirely that sex’s fault and never a combined failing. Ansari has been held to a bit of a mind-reading standard here. Grace should also be held to mind-reader standard. A lot of people discussing this story are applying this “equal empathy” standard, which is reasonable. But a lot of other people, I’d submit less reasonable sorts, are fighting it. And it can’t be said any other way: Those people are suggesting women are weaker, and have less agency, and less capacity to handle themselves in these situations. They are saying women need a handicap here, and men are suspect until proven innocent.
This is, of course, a massive academic circle jerk. Normal people navigate this shit all day long without issue, without assaulting or unjustly accusing each other of unsavory things. It’s sad this shit needs to be explained to anyone.
