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Old 12-07-2017, 06:02 PM   #40
ThurgreedMarshall
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 24,576
Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adder View Post
We were doing that when it was one allegation. It became unsustainable when it was another allegation every week, especially when you factor in the assumption that there were likely to be more. Seems like he's just low-grade handsy. How do the Dems get anything, even basic messaging, done when there's another staffer or constituent saying he grabbed them every few days?
This is the problem. What do you mean how do we get anything done? Are you talking from a practical standpoint or a political one?

Practically speaking, you carry out the investigation, unearth all of the allegations, address them, and decide on a punishment that is appropriate given the level and number of offenses. Are we saying that we can no longer function because there are 8 women who said he grabbed their ass? Can we not determine that he can be punished within the walls of the Senate (remove his name from bills, remove him from committees, have him attend sexual harassment training, whatever else is appropriate) and move on? He's a Senator who actually fucking cares about moving the ball forward on feminist issues. That shit is all out the window and he has to resign? I don't think so--at least not based on what I've heard of his behavior.

Politically speaking, I'll say this: Fuck the right. I don't give a fuck if Huckabee et al says Moore should stay if Franken stays. Those assholes are going to justify keeping Moore no matter what the left decides is appropriate. If we can't determine that what Franken has done is nowhere near what Moore or Trump has done, then we're fucking doomed. Because (and listen closely), anyone who voted for Trump after hearing him talk about assaulting women and seeing victim after victim be ignored is not going to run back to the Democrats because we have proven moral superiority by kicking Franken out.

If we can't get messaging out because Franken touched another butt 8 years ago, then let's just give up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adder View Post
Resignation isn't really punishment. It's stopping the political bleeding.
Bleeding from where? Who are we losing if Franken didn't retire and we actually put a thoughtful punishment in place? And who are we losing them to? If they leave to go to a party that fucking funds a child molester's bid for Senate, we had no shot at keeping them.

We run around like our heads are on fire trying to be all things to all people. If Conyers was exposing himself and touching people while in office, boot his ass. No problem with that. But if we can't determine that what Franken did, while somewhere on the same spectrum of wrong, doesn't deserve the proverbial death penalty, then we need to rethink what our goals as a party are.

If I were in charge of the party, I'd push for a proper investigation, figuring out a punishment that fits (and maybe the investigation reveals that he should go), carrying it out, and would have absolutely no problem pointing my finger at the other side and saying they're shitty people for getting behind Trump and Moore. That's not hypocrisy.

TM

Last edited by ThurgreedMarshall; 12-07-2017 at 06:18 PM..
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