Do Lawtalkers Dream of Electric Sheep?

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

It's a nice day to start again.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Well, in this case, if she snags him cheating, the issue of whether the search was right or wrong is pretty academic.

Unless they follow the Federal Rules of Evidence in their household. That'd be a pretty twisted life, wouldn't it. "Honey, we cannot debate whether I have been cheating because your evidence is precluded by the rules."

Of course. The ends justify the means.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Of course. The ends justify the means.

And in answer to Sebby's response on the last thread -- I agree that actually sending a fake one to a friend probably would not work, but scumbags often have scumbag friends. Plus, its easy enough to create your own fake e-mail account to send stuff to.

Anyhow, just saying it is possible, though not credible. Anyhow, it is all screwed up beyond belief.

S_A_M

[dtb]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Of course. The ends justify the means.

In cases of cheating, I would say that they do. I don't know - maybe not. I'm torn.

For me, it's hard to come up with a one-size-fits-all rule. If there has been a pattern of suspected lying and deception, that can fuck with the head of the person who is being lied to/deceived. It can make the deceived person do things s/he wouldn't otherwise do. If the suspicions are groundless, then I suppose the snooper ought to examine what motivated him/her do it in the first place.

I can imagine (only too well) what it would be like to not quite trust what someone tells you, but not being able to say why, and that causing a lot of anxiety/feeling like you're crazy. I can imagine feeling as though you need to check, because you have to see whether you're just imagining things, or if no, you're not crazy -- s/he's lying to you!!

In an ideal relationship, none of this would happen -- but what would you do if you had an awful suspicion that your spouse was being untruthful or unfaithful,, but (as puppy person said) you're not getting a straight answer when you speak to him/her about your suspicions. Do you just call the divorce lawyer based on your feeling of uneasiness? I can't believe anyone would answer yes to that.

[greatwhitenorthchick]

I don't like the thread title.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by greatwhitenorthchick
I don't like the thread title.

It should be "It's a nice day for a white wedding" based on the text in the first post.

[dtb]

Wow.

Beautiful performance. And (as the friend who shared this with me said), it doesn't hurt that the lyrics are genius.

Hot.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by greatwhitenorthchick
I don't like the thread title.

I'm open to suggestions.

[dtb]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
It should be "It's a nice day for a white wedding" based on the text in the first post.

Or, given the subject matter at the end of the last thread, "Better not have a wedding if your intended is a cheating scumbag."

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by dtb
Or, given the subject matter at the end of the last thread, "Better not have a wedding if your intended is a cheating scumbag."

you all want great thread titles, you gotta start letting Hank win.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally posted by dtb
In cases of cheating, I would say that they do. I don't know - maybe not. I'm torn.

For me, it's hard to come up with a one-size-fits-all rule. If there has been a pattern of suspected lying and deception, that can fuck with the head of the person who is being lied to/deceived. It can make the deceived person do things s/he wouldn't otherwise do. If the suspicions are groundless, then I suppose the snooper ought to examine what motivated him/her do it in the first place.

I can imagine (only too well) what it would be like to not quite trust what someone tells you, but not being able to say why, and that causing a lot of anxiety/feeling like you're crazy. I can imagine feeling as though you need to check, because you have to see whether you're just imagining things, or if no, you're not crazy -- s/he's lying to you!!

In an ideal relationship, none of this would happen -- but what would you do if you had an awful suspicion that your spouse was being untruthful or unfaithful,, but (as puppy person said) you're not getting a straight answer when you speak to him/her about your suspicions. Do you just call the divorce lawyer based on your feeling of uneasiness? I can't believe anyone would answer yes to that.

I can only speak for myself. I think snooping is completely fucked up. But I used to be a heavy cheater, so I can't stand in judgment too much.

Whenever I've felt like someone wasn't being truthful, I would just question them in the most minute detail about it. I've done it and it's been done to me and trust me, it can be pretty fucking annoying. But at least it is obvious that you do not really believe everything the person is telling you and you are being straight up with them and asking them questions directly.

There are always occasions in relationships where something isn't quite right, but you can't put your finger on it. It may be a coincidence, your mind playing tricks on you or something that truly wasn't quite right. But if you ask someone questions until you are satisfied (or as close as you can get with just asking questions), you kind of have to leave it at that and trust what they're saying. If you don't trust them, then it's going to be over one way or another at some point soon anyway (or it should be).

Once you start snooping, there's no doubt you're saying, "I don't trust you." If you truly don't trust them and have good reason, then you can look at it as a measure to protect yourself, but you're really just trying to confirm that you're in the wrong relationship. If you don't find anything, that doesn't even mean you're wrong, but it means there's no trust and you're probably doomed. Because if you do it once, you'll do it again and again and again until one of you gets caught.

TM

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by dtb
Or, given the subject matter at the end of the last thread, "Better not have a wedding if your intended is a cheating scumbag."

To combine song titles, "I don't need a wedding"?

I am not hugely into the new title. Maybe we should limit them to song titles or lyrics from now on.

[robustpuppy]

Originally posted by dtb
In cases of cheating, I would say that they do. I don't know - maybe not. I'm torn.

For me, it's hard to come up with a one-size-fits-all rule.

Besides, the analogy to the exclusionary rule is weak, since it was intended (wasn't it?) as a check on the intrusive power of the state, and not to let the guilty off the hook, although it often has that effect, which is pretty universally decried as an undesirable (yet, to those cncerned with civil liberties), a necessary one. Surely we are not arguing that a spouse has a comparable expectation of privacy as against one's spouse, especially with respect to potential wrongdoing as destructive as cheating or dissipating family assets or some such, as one ought to have against the state?

And before anybody starts, I'm not saying spouses don't have reasonable expectations of privacy with regard to one another.

[robustpuppy]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
It's a nice day to start again.

Note to self: compile "labor" playlist, update iPod.

[dtb]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
Once you start snooping, there's no doubt you're saying, "I don't trust you." If you truly don't trust them and have good reason, then you can look at it as a measure to protect yourself, but you're really just trying to confirm that you're in the wrong relationship. If you don't find anything, that doesn't even mean you're wrong, but it means there's no trust and you're probably doomed. Because if you do it once, you'll do it again and again and again until one of you gets caught.

This I agree with 100%. I suppose I still have trouble condemning someone for snooping when they have a rational basis for not trusting. It's easy to say, "Well, just leave, then" but (as is the case in matters of the heart), it's not rational. I can understand not wanting the suspicions to be confirmed, because you love the person. You want her/him to be faithful -- maybe you need the proof to finally get the kick in the pants you need to leave her/him.

I'm not an advocate of snooping, I can just empathize with the motivations for it.

(Or as Chris Rock says (in reference to OJ Simpson), "I'm not saying he shoulda killed her, I'm just saying I understaaaaaand.")