Posting Towards Gomorrah

[Spanky]

Originally posted by notcasesensitive
The missing word is "us". And really, this is so silly. He was in the military and everyone thinks he is denegrating our soldiers? Here's the joke:

"You know, education — if you make the most of it, you study hard and you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don’t, you get us stuck in Iraq."

Funny? No. But the ridiculous overblowing of this thing is classic republican spin doctoring. Convenient for them that he said something stupid the week before the election. I'm sure they won't let it drop until next Wednesday.

Yes, it is a stupid distraction. I have never denied that. But that is not the point.

Ty alleged yesterday that if you heard the whole transcript (more than what was being played at the time) the meaning was obvious. In other words Kerry's true intent was obvious if you heard more. He also alleged that Hank and me were foolish to doubt that assertion. Hank and I doubted it because we never saw the actual transcript and weren't going just to take someone words for it. Ty avered that position was unreasonable.

It turns out that there is no more of the transcript that changes the meaning. In order to change the meaning you have to add a word or two that Kerry never said. So Ty was wrong, which isn't surprizing, because with his ideological blinders on he was willing to believe anything that was supportive of Kerry.

Hank and I were correct to doubt what he was alleging and he was wrong to critisize us for our doubt because our doubt proved to be well founded.

Does that make sense?

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch

Well, he is an idiot.

hmmm. 2 years ago he was a great candidate for the Presidency.

[nononono]

Originally posted by notcasesensitive
You are bizarre to be arguing this. Kerry had a joke he was trying to tell. He screwed up the delivery. The way that he screwed up the delivery was that he left out the word "us". I get that this is supposed to play well to the not-willing-to-stay-reasonably-informed general public, but I expect more of you, Spanky. JFC. The guy fought in Vietnam and the republican spin machine is that he thinks our troops are all idiots? So he's an idiot too, right?

That he actually served wouldn't necessarily prevent him from being an ignorant fuck, of course.

I still think the greater issue is the judgment, or lack thereof, in trying to make such a stupid joke to begin with.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by Spanky
Yes, it is a stupid distraction. I have never denied that. But that is not the point.

Ty alleged yesterday that if you heard the whole transcript (more than what was being played at the time) the meaning was obvious. In other words Kerry's true intent was obvious if you heard more. He also alleged that Hank and me were foolish to doubt that assertion. Hank and I doubted it because we never saw the actual transcript and weren't going just to take someone words for it. Ty avered that position was unreasonable.

It turns out that there is no more of the transcript that changes the meaning. In order to change the meaning you have to add a word or two that Kerry never said. So Ty was wrong, which isn't surprizing, because with his ideological blinders on he was willing to believe anything that was supportive of Kerry.

Hank and I were correct to doubt what he was alleging and he was wrong to critisize us for our doubt because our doubt proved to be well founded.

Does that make sense?

If you're saying that you actually think Kerry meant to insult the troops, no. That makes no fucking sense at all.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by notcasesensitive
You are bizarre ...

Six years of accomplishing squat and running up budget deficits. Spending like drunken sailors. Lying to the public. Not listening to the guys on the ground about how to run a war. Bribing public officials. Gerrymandering congressional districts.

They want to talk about the last Democrat they beat. Do you blame them.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Insofar as all male Muslims think alike, you must be correct.

No just a majority. Are you saying that good Jury selection does not involve making assumptions like this? Are you saying it would be wrong for a prosecutor to assume that a potential male muslim juror would have a greater chance of having less sympathy for an abused women than the average person in the Jury pool?

[Sidd Finch]

Interesting bit about former Rs, now Ds, running for offices in Kansas.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061102/...ions_kansas_dc


And an interesting quote:

A cross-section of Democrats, moderate Republicans and independents are backing the party-switchers, saying a Republican obsession with expanded government and deficit spending, along with divisive social issues like abortion and gay marriage, has marred efforts to limit government, boost spending on education and ensure fiscal responsibility.

Perhaps Bilmore can explain why these people are all active traitors who support terrorists, while Spanky can explain why they are all active traitors whom terrorists support.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Press had the transcript before the talk. Tony Snow refers to it in his briefings. I don't think its been released publicly - at least I haven't seen it. But I assume you trust Tony Snow, right, since he generally tells you guys what to [s]think[/s] say.

find one person who says they had the transcript in their hands before he said it. maybe there are, I'm just saying short of that some "transcript" of what he "intended" to say, and created at some unprovable time, is meaningless.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by nononono
That he actually served wouldn't necessarily prevent him from being an ignorant fuck, of course.

I still think the greater issue is the judgment, or lack thereof, in trying to make such a stupid joke to begin with.

That's relevant in two years if he runs. Right now, I think there are more important issues facing the country.

[nononono]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
It's one thing for nono to tell me not to fling insults and general nastiness -- she rarely visits the PB and thus can be forgiven for being unfamiliar with the general tenor of the place. (Believe me -- in relative terms I was being nice.)

But you've been here enough to know better. What were you thinking when you wrote the above?






Well, he is an idiot. But, I think you meant to say "So he was saying that he's an idiot too, right?" Right?




eta: According to Slave, Kerry did not fight in Vietnam. He was sipping sweet tea in Laos. Dems do that sort of thing.

I am familiar, sweetheart. I didn't tell you not to fling insults; I said your overwrought use of them left me with nothing to respond to in your posts. I could possibly have comprehended it had we exchanged more than a note or two, but your immediate explosion was hysterical and a bit quick off the trigger. Hopefully this doesn't carry over into the rest of your life.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
find one person who says they had the transcript in their hands before he said it. maybe there are, I'm just saying short of that some "transcript" of what he "intended" to say, and created at some unprovable time, is meaningless.

I just told you where you could find the discussion that says that.

Now quit your trolling and find something relevant to discuss.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Gattigap
If you're saying that you actually think Kerry meant to insult the troops, no. That makes no fucking sense at all.

Once you understand what Kerry was trying to say, then you can see he wasn't intending to insult the troops. But without knowing what he was trying to say, if you just watch the clip it looks like he was trying to insult the troops. It doesn't matter how much of the clip you watch, or how much of the transcript you read, without knowing what he was trying to say it sounds like he is saying stupid people go to Iraq.

How does that not make sense?

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Gattigap
If you're saying that you actually think Kerry meant to insult the troops, no. That makes no fucking sense at all.

talking to college kids about doing well inschool, it is not possible he fell into the "troops are poorly educated kids tricked into signing up?"

it is a basic premise of Farenheit 9/11- it make sense as a joke (once you buy into the premise) to "scare" kids into studying. he has been quite disrespectful (perhaps accurately, but still) about troops in vietnam, why would he be beyond that now?

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by Spanky
No just a majority. Are you saying that good Jury selection does not involve making assumptions like this? Are you saying it would be wrong for a prosecutor to assume that a potential male muslim juror would have a greater chance of having less sympathy for an abused women than the average person in the Jury pool?

Of course it would be "wrong." It's illegal.

That doesn't mean it wouldn't be done.

[notcasesensitive]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
it is just as likely he didn't mean the "us" to be there, and it was an off the cuff joke from a stilted millionaire who is out of touch with the real world.

he was a former soldier? big deal. until he decided to run for President the fellow soldiers he served with acted "like genghis Khan's hordes." He could say that but not say something disrespectful about the education level of the people who enlist?

before you answer, remember a few people here agreed that mostly the poorly educated make up the army AND Mikey Moore made the same argument is his mocku-drama.

Don't worry, Hank, I don't expect more of you.