No Faith in the Moral Standards of the Players as a Group

[taxwonk]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

So I saw the Stones Wednesday night for the first time in about 26 years. It was pretty fun. I guess in a very different way than, say, Mos Def was fun, but still a good time. Anyway, it got me thinking about the Sebastian horns in rock thing. This has probably been discussed, but are not the Stones a conclusive and irrebuttable counter-argument to Sebastian's proposition? Rocks Off. Bitch. All Down the Line. I mean, srsly.

I have invoked Can't You Hear Me Knocking each time he brings it out. The song is one of the Stones' best, hence one of the best period, and it would be half the song it is without the sax break in the middle.

[baltassoc]

Howdy. Been a while, I know.

A friend* is in need of a divorce attorney, preferably a woman, in Austin. Sounds like the divorce is contentious and there are kids, but there's a potential to resolve. If anyone knows someone in Austin and can PM me, I'd appreciate it.


*No really. I'm not anywhere near Texas.

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch

High school me appreciated “Mystic Pizza,” but that was because I spent the entire film expecting to see Julia Roberts’s tits.

Thanks for all of the input everyone. We basically got to do...nothing in the area. Due to the bride over-scheduling the whole damn weekend. Good times!

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by taxwonk

I have invoked Can't You Hear Me Knocking each time he brings it out. The song is one of the Stones' best, hence one of the best period, and it would be half the song it is without the sax break in the middle.

Great solo, and it totally makes the coda of that song. But it is a different thing than the horns in, say, All Down The Line or Bitch, which (as a horn section, as opposed to a horn solo) really drive the music forward. The horn section lines in All Down The Line are fantastic and as much a part of the "rock" as the guitars. Same with Rocks Off. Can't You Hear Me Knocking is a great song from the opening guitar riff, but I have always been suspicious of the claim that the entire Santana-themed coda was a spontaneous jam that just happened to be recorded. From Wikipedia:

On the recording, Richards said in 2002,

"(The jam at the end wasn't inspired by Carlos Santana.) We didn't even know they were still taping. We thought we'd finished. We were just rambling and they kept the tape rolling. I figured we'd just fade it off. It was only when we heard the playback that we realised, Oh, they kept it going. Basically we realised we had two bits of music. There's the song and there's the jam." [1]

Taylor recalls in a 1979 interview,

"Can't You Hear Me Knocking... is one of my favourites... (The jam at the end) just happened by accident; that was never planned. Towards the end of the song I just felt like carrying on playing. Everybody was putting their instruments down, but the tape was still rolling and it sounded good, so everybody quickly picked up their instruments again and carried on playing. It just happened, and it was a one-take thing. A lot of people seem to really like that part."

Really? So I was listening in more detail this weekend, and noticed that, as far as I can tell anyway, there is no sax in the first 2:42 of the song. So was Keys just sitting there enjoying the music, with his sax ready just in case, and when the spontaneous jam broke out at 2:43, he decided that this would be a good time to launch into a lengthy solo? Is that your story, Mr. Richards?

[baltassoc]

Originally Posted by Not Bob

No, it wasn't anyone who currently posts. But, I just sent another batch out, and I'm pretty sure that a different Infirm alum (an ex of someone who does post here) just looked at my profile and hasn't yet accepted. Fucker. Compliment a coupled-chick's hairstyle once too often and one is shunned!

I'll PM you shortly. Thanks.

Sorry, I didn't see this message when you contacted me through LI, or I would have known it was you. I was still catching up on a five year backlog of 465,986 posts. Even after filtering out the Hank posts there were something like 675 left, so it took a while.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

So I saw the Stones Wednesday night for the first time in about 26 years. It was pretty fun. I guess in a very different way than, say, Mos Def was fun, but still a good time. Anyway, it got me thinking about the Sebastian horns in rock thing. This has probably been discussed, but are not the Stones a conclusive and irrebuttable counter-argument to Sebastian's proposition? Rocks Off. Bitch. All Down the Line. I mean, srsly.

There are loads of exceptions to that proposition. Exile has many tunes on it where the horns blend nicely with guitars. Perhaps it's the mastering, or maybe the arrangement, but yes -- the horns work there. They also work on Stick Fingers' "Brown Sugar" and, of course, "Bitch."

Where horns very much do not work is in concert, when the Stones add them to classics like "Satisfaction" or "Jumping Jack Flash." It's bad enough Ronnie and Keith overlap so much (Taylor was a much better compliment to Keith, and the band in general). The last thing they need is superfluous horns coming in all over the place.

I just bought the Allmans' Fillmore East five disc box. Among all the other recordings from the closing week of that theatre are cuts in which horns are added ("In Memory of Elizabeth Reed" and a couple other classics). It sounds unnecessary. It reminds me of Marsalis playing with the Dead. Just because you can add a horn doesn't mean you should.

Guitar, particularly Keith's guitar, played raggedly, almost always sounds so much better on its own. If you doubt that, dust off Get Yer Ya Yas Out, and imagine a horn section in the background.

No offense to Bobby Keys (pouring a 40).

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

Great solo, and it totally makes the coda of that song. But it is a different thing than the horns in, say, All Down The Line or Bitch, which (as a horn section, as opposed to a horn solo) really drive the music forward. The horn section lines in All Down The Line are fantastic and as much a part of the "rock" as the guitars. Same with Rocks Off. Can't You Hear Me Knocking is a great song from the opening guitar riff, but I have always been suspicious of the claim that the entire Santana-themed coda was a spontaneous jam that just happened to be recorded. From Wikipedia:

On the recording, Richards said in 2002,

"(The jam at the end wasn't inspired by Carlos Santana.) We didn't even know they were still taping. We thought we'd finished. We were just rambling and they kept the tape rolling. I figured we'd just fade it off. It was only when we heard the playback that we realised, Oh, they kept it going. Basically we realised we had two bits of music. There's the song and there's the jam." [1]

Taylor recalls in a 1979 interview,

"Can't You Hear Me Knocking... is one of my favourites... (The jam at the end) just happened by accident; that was never planned. Towards the end of the song I just felt like carrying on playing. Everybody was putting their instruments down, but the tape was still rolling and it sounded good, so everybody quickly picked up their instruments again and carried on playing. It just happened, and it was a one-take thing. A lot of people seem to really like that part."

Really? So I was listening in more detail this weekend, and noticed that, as far as I can tell anyway, there is no sax in the first 2:42 of the song. So was Keys just sitting there enjoying the music, with his sax ready just in case, and when the spontaneous jam broke out at 2:43, he decided that this would be a good time to launch into a lengthy solo? Is that your story, Mr. Richards?

2. That outro is too constructed to have occurred spontaneously. And both Taylor and Keith were so frequently polluted at that point, all of their recollections are suspect. Also, Taylor's story sounds a lot like his explanation of the brilliant solo at the end of "Time Waits for No One" (IOR&R is a crappy record, but that solo is beautiful). I think in place of an accurate memory, and because he seemed to go to another world while playing guitar* - staring at the strings and ignoring everything around him - his default line when asked about any of those many genius moments from '69-'75 is "Uh, they just let the tape run, and we did what we did."
_______
* Watch any concert film of him. He's either super-baked, ridiculously introverted, or an undiagnosed musical Asperger savant (or all three).

[taxwonk]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

Great solo, and it totally makes the coda of that song. But it is a different thing than the horns in, say, All Down The Line or Bitch, which (as a horn section, as opposed to a horn solo) really drive the music forward. The horn section lines in All Down The Line are fantastic and as much a part of the "rock" as the guitars. Same with Rocks Off. Can't You Hear Me Knocking is a great song from the opening guitar riff, but I have always been suspicious of the claim that the entire Santana-themed coda was a spontaneous jam that just happened to be recorded. From Wikipedia:

On the recording, Richards said in 2002,

"(The jam at the end wasn't inspired by Carlos Santana.) We didn't even know they were still taping. We thought we'd finished. We were just rambling and they kept the tape rolling. I figured we'd just fade it off. It was only when we heard the playback that we realised, Oh, they kept it going. Basically we realised we had two bits of music. There's the song and there's the jam." [1]

Taylor recalls in a 1979 interview,

"Can't You Hear Me Knocking... is one of my favourites... (The jam at the end) just happened by accident; that was never planned. Towards the end of the song I just felt like carrying on playing. Everybody was putting their instruments down, but the tape was still rolling and it sounded good, so everybody quickly picked up their instruments again and carried on playing. It just happened, and it was a one-take thing. A lot of people seem to really like that part."

Really? So I was listening in more detail this weekend, and noticed that, as far as I can tell anyway, there is no sax in the first 2:42 of the song. So was Keys just sitting there enjoying the music, with his sax ready just in case, and when the spontaneous jam broke out at 2:43, he decided that this would be a good time to launch into a lengthy solo? Is that your story, Mr. Richards?

Hey, it's Keef. It's a miracle he can still remember to breathe and stand up at the same time.

[taxwonk]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

There are loads of exceptions to that proposition. Exile has many tunes on it where the horns blend nicely with guitars. Perhaps it's the mastering, or maybe the arrangement, but yes -- the horns work there. They also work on Stick Fingers' "Brown Sugar" and, of course, "Bitch."

Where horns very much do not work is in concert, when the Stones add them to classics like "Satisfaction" or "Jumping Jack Flash." It's bad enough Ronnie and Keith overlap so much (Taylor was a much better compliment to Keith, and the band in general). The last thing they need is superfluous horns coming in all over the place.

I just bought the Allmans' Fillmore East" five disc box. Among all the other recordings from the closing week of that theatre are cuts in which horns are added ("In Memory of Elizabeth Reed" and a couple other classics). It sounds unnecessary. It reminds me of Marsalis playing with the Dead. Just because you can add a horn doesn't mean you should.

Guitar, particularly Keith's guitar, played raggedly, almost always sounds so much better on its own. If you doubt that, dust off Get Yer Ya Yas Out, and imagine a horn section in the background.

No offense to Bobby Keys (pouring a 40).

Wet Willie and Atlanta Rhythm Section.

Street Corner Serenade. QED

[ferrets_bueller]

As I believe I have said here before:

Horns and Rock can absolutely go together. Clarence Clemmons was Exhibit A. The brass interlude in Paul Simon's "Late In The Evening" is Exhibit B.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally Posted by ferrets_bueller

As I believe I have said here before:

Horns and Rock can absolutely go together. Clarence Clemmons was Exhibit A. The brass interlude in Paul Simon's "Late In The Evening" is Exhibit B.

And Chicago's "Waiting For the Break of Day" is, well, um. Okay, so we have two exhibits.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch

And Chicago's "Waiting For the Break of Day" is, well, um. Okay, so we have two exhibits.

After Walk on the Wild Side there's a quick and steep decent to Penny Lane, 1-2-3-4, and, ultimately, a bottoming out in the nausea inducing stylings of Billy Joel.

This slope is not your ordinary old Alpine double black diamond. It's more like skiing the cliffs of Dover.

[Icky Thump]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

2. That outro is too constructed to have occurred spontaneously. And both Taylor and Keith were so frequently polluted at that point, all of their recollections are suspect. Also, Taylor's story sounds a lot like his explanation of the brilliant solo at the end of "Time Waits for No One" (IOR&R is a crappy record, but that solo is beautiful). I think in place of an accurate memory, and because he seemed to go to another world while playing guitar* - staring at the strings and ignoring everything around him - his default line when asked about any of those many genius moments from '69-'75 is "Uh, they just let the tape run, and we did what we did."
_______
* Watch any concert film of him. He's either super-baked, ridiculously introverted, or an undiagnosed musical Asperger savant (or all three).

Wrong. Watch some videos of the recording sessions.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by Icky Thump

Wrong. Watch some videos of the recording sessions.

There's video of the Can't You Hear Me Knocking jam? Is it on YouTube?

[Icky Thump]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

There's video of the Can't You Hear Me Knocking jam? Is it on YouTube?

No it was gimme shelter