We are all Slave now.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Adder

The single worst policy decision we ever made in this country was to lead our cities away from being designed around mostly walking and taking the streetcar/subway and toward accommodating car trips (to and from the suburbs). Cars have their uses, but they absolutely kill cities.

The use of cars was inevitable but it was the morons who invented suburban zoning who really knocked ten points off the country's average IQ.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

The use of cars was inevitable but it was the morons who invented suburban zoning who really knocked ten points off the country's average IQ.

I, like Atticus, am no fan of zoning, but isn't the problem also like that lots of people like suburban living. I hear that Houston has no zoning, and it's not like it's that much denser than a lot of other places. Is that wrong?

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?

Some suburbs in established cities (like NYC, Chicago and Boston) don't look like suburbs at all. They look like towns ("Anytown, USA Jerry - Oh you gotta mulch. You got to"), with a town center and independent restaurants. No strip malls. You know this.

If it was mostly built out before 1950 (or so), it has a shot at being acceptable. I also almost don't hate some of the post-2000 planned communities that emulate a town, with entertainment and commercial centers in the middle, some retail options with sidewalks and bike trails. My FIL lives in one in Lincoln, NE that's okay thanks to two okay places to eat that he could walk two blocks to get to but doesn't.

Some of them go too far and turn too Stepford, though.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

When you die, you are going to hell. In that hell, there will only be one meal. Pizza. The pizza will always be made exactly the same. It will consist of a gluten-free English Muffin topped with Ketchup and a single slice of non-dairy American Cheese substitute, cooked for an insufficient amount of time in a toaster oven that smells of burnt plastic.

Water. Off. My. Back.

I married into a Jewish family, add baked until dry spaghetti to the above,and you got what my MIL makes when she's trying to show she's finally accepted an Itie SIL.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Adder

Or bike, e-bike or scooter, and the travel distances are shorter.

Yes. Delivery works in cities too. My point, which I didn't make clear enough, is that delivery services like DoorDash and UberEats are helping suburbs close the gap to cities, restaurant-quality- and -choice-wise. Not eliminate, but close.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Adder

If it was mostly built out before 1950 (or so), it has a shot at being acceptable. I also almost don't hate some of the post-2000 planned communities that emulate a town, with entertainment and commercial centers in the middle, some retail options with sidewalks and bike trails. My FIL lives in one in Lincoln, NE that's okay thanks to two okay places to eat that he could walk two blocks to get to but doesn't.

Some of them go too far and turn too Stepford, though.

Those suburbs were typically built around train stations.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Yes. Delivery works in cities too. My point, which I didn't make clear enough, is that delivery services like DoorDash and UberEats are helping suburbs close the gap to cities, restaurant-quality- and -choice-wise. Not eliminate, but close.

Last night, we ordered Mediterranean food from a little place in the first ring suburb to our south, delivered by Amazon Restaurants. So, yeah. The Egyptian driver approved.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Those suburbs were typically built around train stations.

Out east they were. The ones we have here are just either the first to be built that just continued on with the urban street grid (e.g., Richfield, parts of Edina, parts of Golden Valley, parts of Roseville) or were towns in their own right that became engulfed (Hopkins).

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally Posted by Adder

If it was mostly built out before 1950 (or so), it has a shot at being acceptable. I also almost don't hate some of the post-2000 planned communities that emulate a town, with entertainment and commercial centers in the middle, some retail options with sidewalks and bike trails. My FIL lives in one in Lincoln, NE that's okay thanks to two okay places to eat that he could walk two blocks to get to but doesn't.

Some of them go too far and turn too Stepford, though.

Yeah, we have houses dating back to the 1870s (I know - not that old). Architecturally, there really is no pattern. Mid-century next to an old tudor next to a craftsman next to a cape cod next to a bungalow next to a colonial, etc. The smaller ranches are getting gobbled up though. In 20 years it's probably going to look much different, but by then I'll be living in the english countryside.

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Those suburbs were typically built around train stations.

Yep

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?

Was it Neko Case?

How did you fucking know that? That's just creepy, dude.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by Adder

The single worst policy decision we ever made in this country was to lead our cities away from being designed around mostly walking and taking the streetcar/subway and toward accommodating car trips (to and from the suburbs). Cars have their uses, but they absolutely kill cities.

This was not so much a decision in Minneapolis as mush as it was corruption wherein the automobile company lobbyists got a stranglehold on the government and "persuaded" them to get rid of the street cars and make Minneapolis into a car-dominated city. That said, I live outside of the downtown area and am still within six blocks of something like ten restaurants, so I can't complain too much.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

I, like Atticus, am no fan of zoning, but isn't the problem also like that lots of people like suburban living. I hear that Houston has no zoning, and it's not like it's that much denser than a lot of other places. Is that wrong?

And we're back to my original point that what really sucks about the suburbs are the suburbanites.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

This was not so much a decision in Minneapolis as mush as it was corruption wherein the automobile company lobbyists got a stranglehold on the government and "persuaded" them to get rid of the street cars and make Minneapolis into a car-dominated city. That said, I live outside of the downtown area and am still within six blocks of something like ten restaurants, so I can't complain too much.

OK, so you're close to restaurants like the city, but do you also have an outdoor pizza oven?

I'm looking for a win-win here!

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?

Yeah, we have houses dating back to the 1870s (I know - not that old). Architecturally, there really is no pattern. Mid-century next to an old tudor next to a craftsman next to a cape cod next to a bungalow next to a colonial, etc. The smaller ranches are getting gobbled up though. In 20 years it's probably going to look much different, but by then I'll be living in the english countryside.

They don't make houses like they used to.

Thing is, I signed on to one of the real estate marketing sites and searched for a 17th century castle on 100 or more acres of land anywhere within two hours of Boston and only one came up. And for that one, they've already subdivided the thieves forest and sold it off.