We are all Slave now.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Sorry, agree with all of this. The term "travel team" means different things to different people. I thought you were making a point about kids whose parents push them to the higher level within the club, and the fact that it tends to be affluent parents who do that. What I was saying is that I don't think it necessarily helps a kid to be pushed to the higher-calibre team. It is absolutely true that the club soccer system is oriented to people who can pay the fees (which, as I said, basically cover coaching and fields -- and the coaches are not getting rich off their cut). There are some scholarships available for kids whose families don't have the money, but not a lot, and this $$$ tends to go to the kids who are standing out, which means that a lot of kids from non-wealthy families will fall out of the system early, before their potential is clear. If you want to play in college, at least in this area, you don't play high school soccer. You need to play in a club. The more competitive teams won't let you play on your high-school team. My sons play both, but they're playing for the HS because they want to be on a HS team, not because it will help them play at a higher level.

Agree completely.

My daughter left a team that wanted her to give up all other sports and the HS team. For the newest level of elite program, they wanted her at practice 5 times a week for two hours. It's completely ridiculous, even at the not so crazy clubs. If you're kid hasn't already been identified as an automatic, no brainer selection to the junior National Team (and if she were, you'd know it), committing to something like this is pure insanity. If you're kid is going to get a scholarship to an elite D I team, I can see why you may push for this. But what's more likely is that you are delusional and/or your kid will burn the fuck out before it happens.

Parents are absolutely nuts. Two of the girls on her AAU team have personal shooting coaches. Everyone is crazy.

TM

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

Agree completely.

My daughter left a team that wanted her to give up all other sports and the HS team. For the newest level of elite program, they wanted her at practice 5 times a week for two hours. It's completely ridiculous, even at the not so crazy clubs. If you're kid hasn't already been identified as an automatic, no brainer selection to the junior National Team (and if she were, you'd know it), committing to something like this is pure insanity. If you're kid is going to get a scholarship to an elite D I team, I can see why you may push for this. But what's more likely is that you are delusional and/or your kid will burn the fuck out before it happens.

Parents are absolutely nuts. Two of the girls on her AAU team have personal shooting coaches. Everyone is crazy.

TM

The current wisdom is that the kids who do better in the long run are those who get to play in a unstructured way -- pick-up soccer, where they can be creative and try things out -- rather than those who spend lots of time being drilled by adults. Not sure that all that coaching is really helping the kids that much, relative to just finding a way to play. Obviously, it's better than nothing, but the middle-class need to take childhood activities and structure them under adult supervision is not the most positive thing. But in our area, all the fields have been taken over by organized activities, so I'm not sure where the kids would be able to go to play pick-up if they wanted to.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

The current wisdom is that the kids who do better in the long run are those who get to play in a unstructured way -- pick-up soccer, where they can be creative and try things out -- rather than those who spend lots of time being drilled by adults. Not sure that all that coaching is really helping the kids that much, relative to just finding a way to play. Obviously, it's better than nothing, but the middle-class need to take childhood activities and structure them under adult supervision is not the most positive thing. But in our area, all the fields have been taken over by organized activities, so I'm not sure where the kids would be able to go to play pick-up if they wanted to.

I think is somewhat true. My daughter's foot skills, goalie technique, and understanding of the game are so beyond what she would have learned playing in an unstructured way that this is not really true. But coaching the creativity out of these kids is definitely a problem.

Every coach who is not personally involved in these travel programs says that they want kids who have played multiple sports--better footwork, more creativity, different muscles and skills developed, etc.

For basketball, I try to get my daughter out on city courts in the summer. She needs to play pick-up with kids who will foul her to keep her from winning, call bullshit fouls, and embarrass her with moves she's never seen.

We recently visited my old undergrad and the school was hosting an all-star game for MN high school kids. One of the players on my school's team (who was running the clock) told us that the girls we were watching were almost all going to Division I schools. Insanity. All of them were form shooters. ZERO creativity. 400 three point attempts. Those girls are in for a rude awakening, because we also went to an AAU tournament for HS girls* and the talent levels on some of those courts were absolutely fantastic. You can tell the best kids are the ones who learned on city courts who were scooped up into excellent AAU programs.

TM

*It's just absolutely amazing that girls have these opportunities now. It was breathtaking to see so many young women playing at such highly competitive levels and coaches scouting them.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

I think is somewhat true. My daughter's foot skills, goalie technique, and understanding of the game are so beyond what she would have learned playing in an unstructured way that this is not really true. But coaching the creativity out of these kids is definitely a problem.

Every coach who is not personally involved in these travel programs says that they want kids who have played multiple sports--better footwork, more creativity, different muscles and skills developed, etc.

For basketball, I try to get my daughter out on city courts in the summer. She needs to play pick-up with kids who will foul her to keep her from winning, call bullshit fouls, and embarrass her with moves she's never seen.

We recently visited my old undergrad and the school was hosting an all-star game for MN high school kids. One of the players on my school's team (who was running the clock) told us that the girls we were watching were almost all Division I players. Insanity. All of them were form shooters. ZERO creativity. 400 three point attempts. Those girls are in for a rude awakening, because we also went to an AAU tournament for HS girls* and the talent levels on some of those courts was absolutely fantastic. You can tell the best kids are the ones who learned on city courts who were scooped up into excellent AAU programs.

TM

*It's just absolutely amazing that girls have these opportunities now. It was breathtaking to see so many young women playing at such highly competitive levels and coaches scouting them.

What I was saying about pick-up is least true for goalies. Our program has a coach who does specialized goalie training, and he does really neat stuff. Kids playing that position on a playground are going to teach themselves some bad habits without even realizing it, and the kids with the resources to get the individualized coaching are far better off.

Another way that American youth soccer fails its kids is the focus on playing games, instead of practices. Especially tournaments, where kids play multiple games in a day and can't play as well. But parents want to see their kids playing games.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Another way that American youth soccer fails its kids is the focus on playing games, instead of practices. Especially tournaments, where kids play multiple games in a day and can't play as well. But parents want to see their kids playing games.

Also no one knows what to do about this:



TM

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

Also no one knows what to do about this:



TM

Not youth soccer, but this was cool:
https://www.theguardian.com/football...mi-final-video

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

Also no one knows what to do about this:



TM

Pretty. But he had two wide open team mates center field. Nice though.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

I think is somewhat true. My daughter's foot skills, goalie technique, and understanding of the game are so beyond what she would have learned playing in an unstructured way that this is not really true. But coaching the creativity out of these kids is definitely a problem.

Every coach who is not personally involved in these travel programs says that they want kids who have played multiple sports--better footwork, more creativity, different muscles and skills developed, etc.

For basketball, I try to get my daughter out on city courts in the summer. She needs to play pick-up with kids who will foul her to keep her from winning, call bullshit fouls, and embarrass her with moves she's never seen.

We recently visited my old undergrad and the school was hosting an all-star game for MN high school kids. One of the players on my school's team (who was running the clock) told us that the girls we were watching were almost all going to Division I schools. Insanity. All of them were form shooters. ZERO creativity. 400 three point attempts. Those girls are in for a rude awakening, because we also went to an AAU tournament for HS girls* and the talent levels on some of those courts were absolutely fantastic. You can tell the best kids are the ones who learned on city courts who were scooped up into excellent AAU programs.

TM

*It's just absolutely amazing that girls have these opportunities now. It was breathtaking to see so many young women playing at such highly competitive levels and coaches scouting them.

AAU is an equalizer, and a reality check. "I can bury the three!" Yep, as can the other 100 kids in this gym.

But the thing that made my guys toughest was playing Gus Macker 3 on 3- I'm sure there is some equivalent there. We'd see a city team of kids who had next to nothing. They might not have been as talented as my guys, but fuck if they were going to lose. There was a ref, but it tended to be a kid, and the city teams had coaches yelling at the refs, so few calls. EVERY game with a D team it seemed we got down 4 or 5, then remembered you had to be willing to fight through the shit. Mostly came back and won, but these were the best lessons of all the lessons.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

The current wisdom is that the kids who do better in the long run are those who get to play in a unstructured way -- pick-up soccer, where they can be creative and try things out -- rather than those who spend lots of time being drilled by adults. Not sure that all that coaching is really helping the kids that much, relative to just finding a way to play. Obviously, it's better than nothing, but the middle-class need to take childhood activities and structure them under adult supervision is not the most positive thing. But in our area, all the fields have been taken over by organized activities, so I'm not sure where the kids would be able to go to play pick-up if they wanted to.

I grew up playing pick up basketball. Endless hours of playing against kids with serious skills.

Those serious skills (at least ball handling) did not rub off on me. I remain unable to do anything but rebound or drive minimal distance to the basket. If I have the ball outside the paint and anyone reasonably fast is near me, it's stolen.

My kid has decent ball handling skills. Must've gotten them from mom's side. I'm jealous.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

The current wisdom is that the kids who do better in the long run are those who get to play in a unstructured way -- pick-up soccer, where they can be creative and try things out -- rather than those who spend lots of time being drilled by adults. Not sure that all that coaching is really helping the kids that much, relative to just finding a way to play. Obviously, it's better than nothing, but the middle-class need to take childhood activities and structure them under adult supervision is not the most positive thing. But in our area, all the fields have been taken over by organized activities, so I'm not sure where the kids would be able to go to play pick-up if they wanted to.

2. Looking back, the main thing for basketball and soccer is that kids play well into adulthood, either pick up or loosely organized adult leagues, or college IM. Too much supervision threatens this goal. I was an ass't soccer coach (early age rec)- the head coach told me our game plan "we will not be the coaches that cause any kid to quit the game." Seems a good plan to me.

And to play pick up you do not need an official soccer field, just some space. In France i saw my kid play pick up on an asphalt school courtyard.