We are all Slave now.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Adder

Colorado civil rights authorities saying mean things about a baker who won't bake a gay cake = unlawful religious discrimination.

Long, repeated record of saying you're going to ban Muslims from the country followed by actually doing it = not unlawful religious discrimination.

Yeah. This country is fucking over.

TM

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I'm in a purple state. Anti-Trump Exhaustion is huge.

"I hate the guy. But I hate the endless criticism more."

"I hate the guy, but I like where the economy seems to be going."

"I wish the media would stop covering him and his critics. It's all you fucking hear. Enough already."

This pretty much paraphrases 80% of what I hear about the issue here. It's a "pox on both of their houses" sentiment. I know you don't like that because you see it as false equivalence, but that's where people are at.

All of this is bullshit. Trump is getting the level of negative attention he deserves based on his own fucking actions. If anyone is tired of the coverage or the criticism to the extent that they plan on voting for him again, then they are just making shit up to justify that vote because they know that what they're doing will be viewed negatively for endless reasons.

TM

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Adder

Not really disagreeing, but the one thing that he does very well is entirely consume the news cycle and I definitely sympathize with complaints about constantly hearing about him.

Sure, but you aren't complaining about his critics, and that's really what Sebby is on about.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

Come on. That was a complete load of horseshit. Waters is something assholes get to point at to justify their bullshit. "She's encouraging intolerance! I can't vote for any party that has someone like her! I'll continue voting for assholes who ban Muslims, destroy families seeking asylum, cage children, roll back civil rights at an alarming rate, stomp on the LGBT community, steal Supreme Court seats, are caught up in fraud, scandal and treason, have diminished our standing across the world, etc., instead."

It's complete bullshit. Anyone who says their mind was changed based on what Waters said is lying through their crooked, rotten (most likely racist) teeth.


TM

The point I wanted to make was a bit different. I agree with you that what Waters says will change no one's views on the right (and I think if Waters didn't exist they'd make up someone else an awful lot like her (or find someone, even if they needed to find a county commissioner or zoning appeals officer somewhere)).

But it's the idea that they don't have to have their own views of anything - their own moral compass - but can justify whatever they are doing based on it being not-Waters, not-Clinton or not-Obama. SEC was saying basically that conservatives were ready to ok putting kids in internment camps as long as Waters didn't like it.

What we are seeing is an abdication by much of the right of any sense of character or morality. They don't care how many pimps, rapists, pederasts or just plain old corrupt fucks they vote for, and they don't care what the rationale behind a trade war or a tax bill is (they won't have hearings and discuss them, anyways). It's a motto of "I don't care."

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by LessinSF

"I can't believe there's a President who has sex with porn stars and wants a space army and I still hate him."

Of course he can't really deliver for either one.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Sure, but you aren't complaining about his critics, and that's really what Sebby is on about.

I am anti-Trump and anti-anti-Trump. I just want it all gone.

Four years of Bush bashing, four years of Obama hysteria from the right, and now four years of this.

It’s fucking exhausting.

Automation’s impact and the environment are what we should be discussing. They are urgent crises. A smart Republic would discuss those things as headline issues all day every day. Instead, we’re bleating about what the Idiot in Chief tweeted on the toilet. The only time we even come close to touching a serious environmental discussion, it’s about Pruitt’s affinity for first class travel.

We’re fucking fools. The pols lead around the media and the media leads us around. Pavlovian circle jerk, giving everyone the ability to vent while the real issues go unaddressed.

This shmuck feeds on eyeballs. Tune him out and whack him at the ballot box. And by that, I mean get out the vote at the street level. Because these virtue signallers on social media? They don’t vote. All they want to do is let you know how much they hate the bad guys. Most of the dumb fucks couldn’t even name four senators.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I am anti-Trump and anti-anti-Trump. I just want it all gone.

Four years of Bush bashing, four years of Obama hysteria from the right, and now four years of this.

It’s fucking exhausting.

Automation’s impact and the environment are what we should be discussing. They are urgent crises. A smart Republic would discuss those things as headline issues all day every day. Instead, we’re bleating about what the Idiot in Chief tweeted on the toilet. The only time we even come close to touching a serious environmental discussion, it’s about Pruitt’s affinity for first class travel.

We’re fucking fools. The pols lead around the media and the media leads us around. Pavlovian circle jerk, giving everyone the ability to vent while the real issues go unaddressed.

This shmuck feeds on eyeballs. Tune him out and whack him at the ballot box. And by that, I mean get out the vote at the street level. Because these virtue signallers on social media? They don’t vote. All they want to do is let you know how much they hate the bad guys. Most of the dumb fucks couldn’t even name four senators.

Are the environment and automation serious issues that are worthy of significant and prolonged discussion and debate? Of course. But if you are in a position where you never know if your son is going to be pulled over on a pretext (or maybe because he was smoking pot) and killed by the police (who will likely not face any severe consequences for having done so), or in a position where you might be confronted by someone who throws the president's words at you and tells that you are a rapist and an animal and should go back to your country (despite the fact that you are a U.S. citizen), or if you are in a position where you are growing up in a world where your president bragged about being able to sexually molest people of your gender because he had a power position over them, or in a position where your family was unable to join you in your country because of your religion, you might be excused for having more urgent issues that will ultimately prevent you from going to some cocktail party in the Philadelphia suburbs to listen to some arrogant know-it-all lecture you about what issues you should REALLY be interested in. I mean, those type of elitist cocktail party blowhards are enough to drive even those most moderate of liberals into the arms of the Maxine Waters of the world.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

The point I wanted to make was a bit different. I agree with you that what Waters says will change no one's views on the right (and I think if Waters didn't exist they'd make up someone else an awful lot like her (or find someone, even if they needed to find a county commissioner or zoning appeals officer somewhere)).

But it's the idea that they don't have to have their own views of anything - their own moral compass - but can justify whatever they are doing based on it being not-Waters, not-Clinton or not-Obama. SEC was saying basically that conservatives were ready to ok putting kids in internment camps as long as Waters didn't like it.

What we are seeing is an abdication by much of the right of any sense of character or morality. They don't care how many pimps, rapists, pederasts or just plain old corrupt fucks they vote for, and they don't care what the rationale behind a trade war or a tax bill is (they won't have hearings and discuss them, anyways). It's a motto of "I don't care."

I don't think that's exactly right. A lot of what they do is motivating by the idea that there are real Americans, and there are other people, and the government ought to do more for real Americans and stick it to other people. There's a morality there. I disagree with it, but it's there.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I am anti-Trump and anti-anti-Trump. I just want it all gone.

Four years of Bush bashing, four years of Obama hysteria from the right, and now four years of this.

It’s fucking exhausting.

Maybe if you could stick to one point, you would have to exhaust yourself inventing a new point of view with every post.

You were trying to explain that there are real actual swing voters who somehow are turned off of Democrats by Trump's critics. We know this because the New York Times found a long-time conservative activist who is sticking by Trump.

Automation’s impact and the environment are what we should be discussing. They are urgent crises. A smart Republic would discuss those things as headline issues all day every day. Instead, we’re bleating about what the Idiot in Chief tweeted on the toilet. The only time we even come close to touching a serious environmental discussion, it’s about Pruitt’s affinity for first class travel.

We’re fucking fools. The pols lead around the media and the media leads us around. Pavlovian circle jerk, giving everyone the ability to vent while the real issues go unaddressed.

This shmuck feeds on eyeballs. Tune him out and whack him at the ballot box. And by that, I mean get out the vote at the street level. Because these virtue signallers on social media? They don’t vote. All they want to do is let you know how much they hate the bad guys. Most of the dumb fucks couldn’t even name four senators.

You are right about getting out the vote. Trump voters are not going to change their mind. Hopefully they will disappointed by what they got, and fewer of them will turn out. And the left needs to organize.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

Are the environment and automation serious issues that are worthy of significant and prolonged discussion and debate? Of course. But if you are in a position where you never know if your son is going to be pulled over on a pretext (or maybe because he was smoking pot) and killed by the police (who will likely not face any severe consequences for having done so), or in a position where you might be confronted by someone who throws the president's words at you and tells that you are a rapist and an animal and should go back to your country (despite the fact that you are a U.S. citizen), or if you are in a position where you are growing up in a world where your president bragged about being able to sexually molest people of your gender because he had a power position over them, or in a position where your family was unable to join you in your country because of your religion, you might be excused for having more urgent issues that will ultimately prevent you from going to some cocktail party in the Philadelphia suburbs to listen to some arrogant know-it-all lecture you about what issues you should REALLY be interested in. I mean, those type of elitist cocktail party blowhards are enough to drive even those most moderate of liberals into the arms of the Maxine Waters of the world.

Go Maxine!!

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Four years of Bush bashing, four years of Obama hysteria from the right, and now four years of this.

The biggest problem we have in dealing with all this automation and technology is American innumeracy. Like not being able to count to eight.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

All of this is bullshit. Trump is getting the level of negative attention he deserves based on his own fucking actions. If anyone is tired of the coverage or the criticism to the extent that they plan on voting for him again, then they are just making shit up to justify that vote because they know that what they're doing will be viewed negatively for endless reasons.

TM

I'm sure there's some of that. But there's far more of the following:

I know there's a guy jacking off on the street corner. Stop screaming 'There's a guy jacking over there!' We all see him. The police will be here soon enough.

The police in this analogy may be the midterm elections, actual law enforcement, or both.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

The biggest problem we have in dealing with all this automation and technology is American innumeracy. Like not being able to count to eight.

Deserved. Touche.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Maybe if you could stick to one point, you would have to exhaust yourself inventing a new point of view with every post.

You were trying to explain that there are real actual swing voters who somehow are turned off of Democrats by Trump's critics. We know this because the New York Times found a long-time conservative activist who is sticking by Trump.



You are right about getting out the vote. Trump voters are not going to change their mind. Hopefully they will disappointed by what they got, and fewer of them will turn out. And the left needs to organize.

I was noting there are both swing voters and Trump voters with buyer's remorse who would vote against him, but may join him or stick with him out of distaste for shrill critics.

You're wrong about Trump voters not changing their minds. If the Democrats focused on how he lied to the blue collar voters and has not delivered for them, they'd peel away the purely economic voters in his base. Focusing on the social wedge issues (immigration, #metoo, Russia) is preaching to the converted. Dems already have all those voters.

If I were running against him, I'd slam the tariffs' negative impacts on jobs and the increase in gas prices relentlessly.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Deserved. Touche.

On a serious note, isn't there a difference between the "Bush bashing" that as I remember it focused heavily on Iraq (I mean, people were camped outside his ranch focusing on that issue for literally years, weren't they?) and the Obama stuff, focusing on things like his birth certificate?

We SHOULD always have passionate debate on issues. I encourage large boisterous rallies over wars, abortion, guns, etc. But there is no equivalent in the Bush bashing to the birther/tea party BS or to Fox/Breitbart.