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Old 07-10-2018, 12:26 PM   #1
sebastian_dangerfield
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop View Post
Across the western world, you see conservative political parties turning away from support for free markets, and turning towards controls on free movement and trade. I'm not sure why you are focused on Putin -- he may try to abet and exploit this shift, but it's not about him. Actually, I would suggest that conservative support for free markets in the second half of the last century came out of the marriage of corporate interests and opposition to Communism, and once the Soviet Union fell apart and ceased to be a major threat, corporate interests alone were not enough to keep conservative parties oriented to free trade. Trump recognized the political potential in opposing free trade, but it's not just him -- it's also Brexit, and similar movements in other developed countries.

Free trade may have a lot of benefits for a lot of people, but those benefits are pretty diffused and can be hard to see. The whole Brexit episode should demonstrate that the stupidity of closing borders may not be an obstacle.
Conservative parties tend to be near entirely co-opted by corporate interests. I see no lack of enthusiasm for free trade there.

I think you're describing a fracture among conservative voters, where the workers in those parties, realizing globalization is not a great deal for them, are becoming populists. Sometimes, these workers, having the power of votes, overcome the power of corporate donors. Sometimes not. Sometimes, the little guys vote in a guy like Trump, who tries to satisfy both corporate interests (tax cuts) and populists (tariffs) at the same time.

I'd bet everything I own on free trade winning the day of over balkanization. The money's too big here, and the economic forces and actors too powerful and diffuse.
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Old 07-10-2018, 01:07 PM   #2
Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
Conservative parties tend to be near entirely co-opted by corporate interests. I see no lack of enthusiasm for free trade there.
You've got to be joking. The Rs have completely abandoned free trade. One of my trumpster relatives at the beach (and, by the way, I hid out at work some of the week to avoid dealing with them - had lunch in town most days with sane people...) last week was going on and on about how exciting it was that we can win a trade war, how our big trade deficit with China gives us lots of leverage, it may hurt a few people but would benefit everyone overall....

The Republicans aren't coming back to free trade. That ship has sailed (after paying tariffs, of course).
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Old 07-10-2018, 01:17 PM   #3
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy View Post
You've got to be joking. The Rs have completely abandoned free trade. One of my trumpster relatives at the beach (and, by the way, I hid out at work some of the week to avoid dealing with them - had lunch in town most days with sane people...) last week was going on and on about how exciting it was that we can win a trade war, how our big trade deficit with China gives us lots of leverage, it may hurt a few people but would benefit everyone overall....

The Republicans aren't coming back to free trade. That ship has sailed (after paying tariffs, of course).
I had an unusual and unfortunate exposure to CNBC yesterday during which a panel mostly agreed we were "winning" a trade war with China.

People are stupid.
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