We are all Slave now.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

Anyway, I really like the book and I am going to bring her in to run a program at this firm.

Please let me know how this plays out.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Data's data.

I also have to consider, I grew up with Asian and Indian neighbors, in an isolated area where most of the original homeowners were successful Jews and Italians (the local Temple was a solid drive and a three iron away). My high school was also private and filled with Indian, Asian, and Middle Eastern kids.

I think my upbringing may have led me to downplay the prevalence of bigotry. Quite literally, we just never thought about it.

And I've been as oblivious about it since. I could see why this would frustrate people who've spent their entire lives dealing with it. Ultimately, however, I will probably always revert to the thinking I've followed on it from the start: Race/Sexual Persuasion/Ethnicity should be immaterial among enlightened people, and the ultimate fix for bigotry - which sadly won't occur until long after we're all dead - is people ignoring those categories and mixing adequately enough that they become something hardly recognizable. (And get rid of religion, which causes most ethnic bigotry.)

This is the Color Blindness defense that is so often employed to avoid any actual introspection. It's like saying, "Everyone should be treated like the rich. If we start treating everyone like they're rich, things will be better because the ultimate fix for poverty -- which sadly won't occur until long after we're all dead -- is no one being poor." You cannot ignore the reality of people's actual existence and just act like things aren't the way they are as an effort to effect change.

TM

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Please let me know how this plays out.

My current levels of not giving a fuck are extraordinarily high, so I am hoping she goes hard.

TM

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

This is the Color Blindness defense that is so often employed to avoid any actual introspection. It's like saying, "Everyone should be treated like the rich. If we start treating everyone like they're rich, things will be better because the ultimate fix for poverty -- which sadly won't occur until long after we're all dead -- is no one being poor." You cannot ignore the reality of people's actual existence and just act like things aren't the way they are as an effort to effect change.

TM

I'm not offering mutually exclusive ways of viewing racism and ethnic bigotry. I'm offering complimentary views.

Practically, everybody needs to recognize the obvious fact that racism and ethnic bigotry make minorities into second class citizens.

Ideally, conceptually, however, I believe it is not only fair but important to say that, while we must take that practical step, the ultimate goal must always be color/ethnicity-blindness.

The former's necessary in the immediate, the latter the long term goal. And inevitably, the latter is how it will all get fixed. Ten or fifteen generations from now people here are going to have blended so much that the noticeable physical differences on which we've arbitrarily and unfairly judged people will be slight to the point that recognizing them at all would seem odd.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

My current levels of not giving a fuck are extraordinarily high, so I am hoping she goes hard.

TM

I find myself alternatively giving no fucks and giving all the fucks. It would be easier on a lot of people if I'd choose one approach and stick with it.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I'm not offering mutually exclusive ways of viewing racism and ethnic bigotry. I'm offering complimentary views.

Practically, everybody needs to recognize the obvious fact that racism and ethnic bigotry make minorities into second class citizens.

Ideally, conceptually, however, I believe it is not only fair but important to say that, while we must take that practical step, the ultimate goal must always be color/ethnicity-blindness.

The former's necessary in the immediate, the latter the long term goal. And inevitably, the latter is how it will all get fixed. Ten or fifteen generations from now people here are going to have blended so much that the noticeable physical differences on which we've arbitrarily and unfairly judged people will be slight to the point that recognizing them at all would seem odd.

Ah the melting pot! My grandparents were not wanted filthy dagoes and I’m a typical*white Midwest American. Problem is blacks have been free for a whole lot longer than the time it took for I tie blood to mix in, so not sure it’s just going happens. Like once a group misses its melting in spot can it still get in? If it is to happen it’s not 10 generations, and there are things I see with 20 somethings that seem positive, but it’s cold comfort to someone 30 now that even though he won’t get a chance maybe someday someone else will. I mean we all have some self to think about.


*typical other than preternaturally (hi Penske sniff) big dick.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I'm not offering mutually exclusive ways of viewing racism and ethnic bigotry. I'm offering complimentary views.

Practically, everybody needs to recognize the obvious fact that racism and ethnic bigotry make minorities into second class citizens.

Ideally, conceptually, however, I believe it is not only fair but important to say that, while we must take that practical step, the ultimate goal must always be color/ethnicity-blindness.

The former's necessary in the immediate, the latter the long term goal. And inevitably, the latter is how it will all get fixed. Ten or fifteen generations from now people here are going to have blended so much that the noticeable physical differences on which we've arbitrarily and unfairly judged people will be slight to the point that recognizing them at all would seem odd.

I think we've had this conversation before.

Racism exists because people treat people of color differently than they treat white people. It's built-in to our society, and it's systemic, institutional, cultural. Having a goal of a color-blind society makes no sense until there is no racism. And if there is no racism, there is no need for color-blindness because people will be treated equally.

Since there is racism (and there will always be racism), what I'm telling you is that most white people use the idea of being blind-to-color as a shield to protect themselves from acknowledging, understanding, and dealing with their own racism. "I'm colorblind, therefore I'm a good person. And only bad people are racist. End of discussion."

That's how it works.

TM

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

I think TM was about to convince Sebby he made a mistake in not voting for Hillary. But now that will never happen.

Remind me again where to send something to help with the cost

It's just me. We are running on a benevolent dictatorship nowadays.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan

It's just me. We are running on a benevolent dictatorship nowadays.

If people do have some extra money I would suggest I deserve to be paid for the content I provide.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

When can I start drinking?

[Icky Thump]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

When can I start drinking?

Should have started already.

Frankly, I am surprised dems picked up as many house seats as they did. Though I am a dyed in the wool socialist liberal, the messages dems chose to focus on don't resonate with the vast majority of americans.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

When can I start drinking?

Do I take this as disappointment or celebration? If you're a fan of checking Trump, of gridlock, last night was a pretty good evening. You got the House but not the Senate. But the Senate was always a long shot.

Two years of gridlock. The market will be happy. Perhaps there will be less volatility. There's a good case that last night's result was the best result possible.

If Democrats got the Senate somehow, and we had an impeachment, we'd be on a rollercoaster for the next two years. That's not where anyone wants to be in the midst of so much uncertainty elsewhere.

I think this is a great result. Trump is checked and maybe if we're lucky we'll see some compromises between the parties on policy.

I'd drink either way, of course.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Icky Thump

Should have started already.

Frankly, I am surprised dems picked up as many house seats as they did. Though I am a dyed in the wool socialist liberal, the messages dems chose to focus on don't resonate with the vast majority of americans.

Russia/Mueller: Not popular
Kavanaugh: Not popular
Economy: Popular
More women/minorities in office: Popular
Health care reform (protecting pre-existing conditions): Popular

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/06/polit...lts/index.html

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

I think we've had this conversation before.

Racism exists because people treat people of color differently than they treat white people. It's built-in to our society, and it's systemic, institutional, cultural. Having a goal of a color-blind society makes no sense until there is no racism. And if there is no racism, there is no need for color-blindness because people will be treated equally.

Since there is racism (and there will always be racism), what I'm telling you is that most white people use the idea of being blind-to-color as a shield to protect themselves from acknowledging, understanding, and dealing with their own racism. "I'm colorblind, therefore I'm a good person. And only bad people are racist. End of discussion."

That's how it works.

TM

There will always be racism during our lives, but I do not think there will always be racism. If the environment doesn't do us in as a species in the meantime, eventually we will become so interconnected globally that both culturally and physically differences underpinning the notion of "race" will fade away.

Is a tenet of that book's point that all people in this country are racist to some extent? That people start out racist because we live in a system that's racist? Is racism a sort of original sin with which we're all born?

I ask that because if that's the case, then that same logic would apply to sexism.

And you see how this would preclude, necessarily, an argument that racism or sexism are acts of free will. It would make an argument that the individual is automatically freighted with decisions of the society into which he was born. But if this is the case, I assume one can reject racism and by doing so remove himself from that group indictment. In this regard, racism would still have an intent element to it. Only, rather than intending to engage in it, one is born into it and makes an intentional decision to reject it.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Do I take this as disappointment or celebration? If you're a fan of checking Trump, of gridlock, last night was a pretty good evening. You got the House but not the Senate. But the Senate was always a long shot.

Two years of gridlock. The market will be happy. Perhaps there will be less volatility. There's a good case that last night's result was the best result possible.

If Democrats got the Senate somehow, and we had an impeachment, we'd be on a rollercoaster for the next two years. That's not where anyone wants to be in the midst of so much uncertainty elsewhere.

I think this is a great result. Trump is checked and maybe if we're lucky we'll see some compromises between the parties on policy.

I'd drink either way, of course.

Senate would have been better than the house, if we got to choose. Next court pick Trump might pick someone CONVICTED of something just to see if he can get that through.