Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I travel between NY and DC a fair amount. It is neither controversial nor inaccurate to note that Philly and Baltimore, and Wilmington (don't forget it just because it's in DE) are in large part blighted cities.

Philly has enjoyed a resurgence of sorts, but NE Philly is a quasi-slum and West Philly remains dangerous. And portions of North Philly aren't even frequented by police. Baltimore is like Philly on steroids. Where at least the downtown of Philly has some development which is spreading out into surrounding neighborhoods, Baltimore remains quite challenged. And Wilmington is just a dead, decrepit city ringed by nice suburbs, 1/4 of which are inhabited by DuPonts.

Anyway, if you travel these cities regularly, the above is not at all an offensive thing to say. You can say it to people who live there and they'll generally agree.

Now, of course, Trump's comment about rats is a dog whistle. And he should be criticized for it. But why make this a discussion about him? He's just saying incendiary shit as he always does.

Why not discuss the fact that, yes, those three cities, and many other Mid Atlantic cities are, in significant part, disasters? There are numerous reasons for this, including a mix of lost jobs, redlining, white flight, affluent flight, bad tax policies, etc.

I don't expect anything useful to some out of this moment. It's a political football. But it'd be pretty awesome if somebody made a list of the five or ten big reasons Baltimore is where it is, gave that list to the candidates before the next debate, and asked each how they'd go about fixing Baltimore. I'd like to hear that. And not some bullshit about education or economic development like Baltimore's inner harbor (tourist dollars aren't a fix).

Philly is attempting to tackle some of its blight by allowing people in bad neighborhoods to take empty properties via adverse possession more quickly. Used to take 21 years. Now, if you are in a row home and take care of it for ten years (as a squatter, or a guy who lost it in foreclosure but hasn't been evicted), it's yours. This puts properties back on the tax rolls and attracts people to otherwise undesirable neighborhoods. It's akin to debt forgiveness -- giving people something without outlay of hard dollars, and making money off the investment in the future in the form of tax dollars. Baltimore should do something like that.

Instead, we'll hear about Trump. And Baltimore will rust.

You're attempting to make lemonade out of lemons, which is fine, but best to know what you are doing. Those tweets, of course, weren't really about Baltimore per se.

Having a discussion on urban policies is a great thing. I live in a phenomenally successful city, one that has been blessed with everything needed to make it work in the 21st century, and still there are two huge problems facing our economy (forget about non-economic problems for a minute): (1) infrastructure, especially transportation infrastructure, was built for an earlier time and has enormous deferred maintenance, and (2) the economic segregation of some areas, especially majority African American and Hispanic neighborhoods in the city and increasingly working class white towns and cities around the city. These are huge problems, they require funds in the many billions of dollars to address in just one urban area. We're talking, in Boston, a $10 to $15 billion capital investment need for the subway system alone.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

You're attempting to make lemonade out of lemons, which is fine, but best to know what you are doing. Those tweets, of course, weren't really about Baltimore per se.

Having a discussion on urban policies is a great thing. I live in a phenomenally successful city, one that has been blessed with everything needed to make it work in the 21st century, and still there are two huge problems facing our economy (forget about non-economic problems for a minute): (1) infrastructure, especially transportation infrastructure, was built for an earlier time and has enormous deferred maintenance, and (2) the economic segregation of some areas, especially majority African American and Hispanic neighborhoods in the city and increasingly working class white towns and cities around the city. These are huge problems, they require funds in the many billions of dollars to address in just one urban area. We're talking, in Boston, a $10 to $15 billion capital investment need for the subway system alone.

A new new deal or some form of public/private infra, or both at once, is needed. You’re in a successful city. The infra in and around Philly and Baltimore is simply atrocious. I mean, approaching third world.

The economic segregation is way trickier to fix. I don’t know how you do that exactly, but I do know that NE Philly is filled with low end labor (working class area) that would benefit from infra spending. So perhaps the fix for infra is a large part of the fix for economic disparity between neighborhoods within cities.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

A new new deal or some form of public/private infra, or both at once, is needed. You’re in a successful city. The infra in and around Philly and Baltimore is simply atrocious. I mean, approaching third world.

The economic segregation is way trickier to fix. I don’t know how you do that exactly, but I do know that NE Philly is filled with low end labor (working class area) that would benefit from infra spending. So perhaps the fix for infra is a large part of the fix for economic disparity between neighborhoods within cities.

It's very frustrating here, because we desperately need, for example, computer programmers, doctors, and nurses, yet the only one of those three areas that is successfully reaching in and hiring from the parts of the city with higher unemployment is nurses. Breaking down the racial and class barriers in tech and medicine would really help everyone, and yet....

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

A new new deal or some form of public/private infra, or both at once, is needed. You’re in a successful city. The infra in and around Philly and Baltimore is simply atrocious. I mean, approaching third world.

The economic segregation is way trickier to fix. I don’t know how you do that exactly, but I do know that NE Philly is filled with low end labor (working class area) that would benefit from infra spending. So perhaps the fix for infra is a large part of the fix for economic disparity between neighborhoods within cities.

The Wire was fiction I suppose, but written by someone who knows the city’s problems. The over arching point being, our cities are pretty fucked. And the system is stacked against anyone trying to change it.

Where the gov is now don’t hold your breath.

On the other hand Detroit has had major development. I think a few local business people invested and started it, but downtown D today is probably busier than it was in the 50’s. Still there are huge parts that remain really fucked up.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

The over arching point being, our cities are pretty fucked.

Different cities are fucked in different ways. Some are struggling with transition to post-industrial economies and/or shrinking. Others are having trouble growing fast enough. Others (hi!) are pretty stable but also worried about falling into either trap.

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally Posted by Adder

Different cities are fucked in different ways. Some are struggling with transition to post-industrial economies and/or shrinking. Others are having trouble growing fast enough. Others (hi!) are pretty stable but also worried about falling into either trap.

Chicago currently has 42 new high-rises under construction...yet population is declining.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

The Wire was fiction I suppose, but written by someone who knows the city’s problems. The over arching point being, our cities are pretty fucked. And the system is stacked against anyone trying to change it.

Where the gov is now don’t hold your breath.

On the other hand Detroit has had major development. I think a few local business people invested and started it, but downtown D today is probably busier than it was in the 50’s. Still there are huge parts that remain really fucked up.

Cities are a concentrated demonstration of the increasing delta between low skill labor needed and low skill labor available. The center attracts professionals and those who work in high end services. Ringing this are neighborhoods filled with excess labor supply.

The same thing is occurring in the suburbs. Low skill labor areas suffer under a vicious cycle. People lose jobs, then homes, then housing prices fall and there’s flight. Those who can run to tonier neighboring towns.

At least in cities, bargain hunters will flood into cheap areas and improve them. In suburbs, and particularly exburbs, once the flight occurs, the only people who come in are speculators looking for cheap rental properties. A community of suburban renters is fucked. No property tax base, so shitty schools. It’s the worst kind of transient community. Mid Atlantic is pock marked with these types of places.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

At least in cities, bargain hunters will flood into cheap areas and improve them. In suburbs, and particularly exburbs, once the flight occurs, the only people who come in are speculators looking for cheap rental properties. A community of suburban renters is fucked. No property tax base, so shitty schools. It’s the worst kind of transient community. Mid Atlantic is pock marked with these types of places.

The notion that development = improvement remains at the core of urban problems.

We generally need ways of delivering quality low and moderate income housing, not ways of converting whatever (flawed though it may be) low and moderate income housing to luxury housing (or absentee condos for Chinese buyers).

And some areas with high vacancy rates have remained that way for decades - how long do we have to wait for the magical improvers to come in?

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

luxury housing (or absentee condos for Chinese buyers).

The popularity of the anti-factual belief that foreign investors hold lots of empty properties is a significant beef I have with much of the performative left, especially when it is used to object to building additional housing.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Adder

The popularity of the anti-factual belief that foreign investors hold lots of empty properties is a significant beef I have with much of the performative left, especially when it is used to object to building additional housing.

I don't know the stats, but this is a reality in a small slice of the market - luxury high rises in Boston, SF, and NY. We've had a bunch of referrals from firms we work with in China, Taiwan and Australia to help them buy some of these, and one of my partners has developed a little guide (in English and Chinese) on buying such properties. I had one I passed on to someone who does that stuff where someone was buying a $30 million apartment in NY. Who does that?

It's almost comical in Boston because until recently we really didn't do luxury highrises. People with money in Boston live in Brownstones or single family houses, not highrises. But lately a bunch have been going up, and they fill almost entirely with people not from here (including a lot of relocated NYers - thanks GE!).

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

The notion that development = improvement remains at the core of urban problems.

We generally need ways of delivering quality low and moderate income housing, not ways of converting whatever (flawed though it may be) low and moderate income housing to luxury housing (or absentee condos for Chinese buyers).

And some areas with high vacancy rates have remained that way for decades - how long do we have to wait for the magical improvers to come in?

I think Philly’s plan allows for organic regeneration of communities. Give the empty homes to the poor with a promise of ownership and then Leave Them Alone. Let people recreate what we once called “communities” - vibrant places where the “melting pot” concept originated. Stop precluding the would be store owner with a shit ton of regs and licensing horseshit. Let him open his place and sell. Let the craft brewer open with a cheap version of a liquor license instead of forcing him to fork over a king’s ransom. Let the chef open his byob joint without having to fill out 30 forms and pay 20 fees.

Make these places “Ellis Island” zones, where the poor can take a chance and build something, together. Give them a fucking break. Don’t force them to acquire capital to serve Big Finance. Let them act as the immigrants did a hundred years ago. Let them run things off the grid a bit. If they succeed, great. If they fail, how much worse could it be?

Yes, I know the melting pot was part legend. But it was part real, and the real part was what created the best elements of American culture. Give the battered communities to the people who are priced out of our bifurcated economy. Tax them lightly, let them reopen the local stores, parks, theaters, etc. And let immigrants come in and join. It worked a hundred years ago. I’m unaware of what would preclude such a Renaissance today.

And frankly, we need it. This Brave New World Shithole we’re creating where people like us control the cultural innovations is producing a wretchedly dull society. It’s more boring than materialism.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I think Philly’s plan allows for organic regeneration of communities. Give the empty homes to the poor with a promise of ownership and then Leave Them Alone. Let people recreate what we once called “communities” - vibrant places where the “melting pot” concept originated. Stop precluding the would be store owner with a shit ton of regs and licensing horseshit. Let him open his place and sell. Let the craft brewer open with a cheap version of a liquor license instead of forcing him to fork over a king’s ransom. Let the chef open his byob joint without having to fill out 30 forms and pay 20 fees.

Make these places “Ellis Island” zones, where the poor can take a chance and build something, together. Give them a fucking break. Don’t force them to acquire capital to serve Big Finance. Let them act as the immigrants did a hundred years ago. Let them run things off the grid a bit. If they succeed, great. If they fail, how much worse could it be?

Yes, I know the melting pot was part legend. But it was part real, and the real part was what created the best elements of American culture. Give the battered communities to the people who are priced out of our bifurcated economy. Tax them lightly, let them reopen the local stores, parks, theaters, etc. And let immigrants come in and join. It worked a hundred years ago. I’m unaware of what would preclude such a Renaissance today.

And frankly, we need it. This Brave New World Shithole we’re creating where people like us control the cultural innovations is producing a wretchedly dull society. It’s more boring than materialism.

Maybe it’s different if your city isn’t growing, but where it is, allowing those places to evolve and grow is absolutely key.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Cities are a concentrated demonstration of the increasing delta between low skill labor needed and low skill labor available. The center attracts professionals and those who work in high end services. Ringing this are neighborhoods filled with excess labor supply.

The same thing is occurring in the suburbs. Low skill labor areas suffer under a vicious cycle. People lose jobs, then homes, then housing prices fall and there’s flight. Those who can run to tonier neighboring towns.

At least in cities, bargain hunters will flood into cheap areas and improve them. In suburbs, and particularly exburbs, once the flight occurs, the only people who come in are speculators looking for cheap rental properties. A community of suburban renters is fucked. No property tax base, so shitty schools. It’s the worst kind of transient community. Mid Atlantic is pock marked with these types of places.

Your posts about cities make no sense here in California.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Your posts about cities make no sense here in California.

This isn't really in reply to you.

The thread started with a reference to Baltimore, then I threw Detroit into the mix. Luxury high rises have nothing to do with solving the problem.

Baltimore is a very distressed city. But Detroit I know better. There is a "revitalized" thread down the main Avenue, and spreading from it. It is chock full of well paid young people and smart shops.

And if you get a half mile off it, you are in rodent infested very challenged areas. For a long while trash pick up was spotty, at best, in those areas. There are blocks with 20 homes, 1 or 2 occupied- they have to try to provide city services in a place that has home density that is almost rural. There are tons of hopeless uneducated people- for generations the high school drop out rate was high, it still is.

The NYT posts travel stories about visiting Detroit the revived city. My daughter lives in a neighborhood that includes the epicenter of the 1967 riots. You will not find an available rental property today. They are no longer beat homes to fix up.

The NYT will direct you to where my daughter lives. Visitors don't see the real challenge. It's great to be able to go to restaurants in the city that are wonderful, but fact is the city's people are not enjoying that rebirth- maybe some jobs- but life still is pretty much tough.

Foreign investment is the answer? Ain't no pracical answer at all.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by hank chinaski

this isn't really in reply to you.

The thread started with a reference to baltimore, then i threw detroit into the mix. Luxury high rises have nothing to do with solving the problem.

Baltimore is a very distressed city. But detroit i know better. There is a "revitalized" thread down the main avenue, and spreading from it. It is chock full of well paid young people and smart shops.

And if you get a half mile off it, you are in rodent infested very challenged areas. For a long while trash pick up was spotty, at best, in those areas. There are blocks with 20 homes, 1 or 2 occupied- they have to try to provide city services in a place that has home density that is almost rural. There are tons of hopeless uneducated people- for generations the high school drop out rate was high, it still is.

The nyt posts travel stories about visiting detroit the revived city. My daughter lives in a neighborhood that includes the epicenter of the 1967 riots. You will not find an available rental property today. They are no longer beat homes to fix up.

The nyt will direct you to where my daughter lives. Visitors don't see the real challenge. It's great to be able to go to restaurants in the city that are wonderful, but fact is the city's people are not enjoying that rebirth- maybe some jobs- but life still is pretty much tough.

Foreign investment is the answer? Ain't no pracical answer at all.

UBI

Or debt forgiveness.

Pick.

Or advocate a lil bit of both.