Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

The problem is not that they are squelching discussion of anything, the problem is that are repeatedly debunking accusations that he did something wrong when there is absolutely no credible evidence that he did anything wrong. If they repeatedly reported that he has never been charged with molesting children, that would smear him too.

It's amazing to me that someone who is as congenitally skeptical of the ability of law enforcement to wreck people's lives as you are can be so blasé about the way that Republicans have used the government to fuck with Hunter Biden. I don't know much about Hunter Biden. By all accounts that I've heard, he's a creep. But WTF? You had sympathy for Paul Manafort, for Christ's sake, who is much creepier and has done a lot of illegal stuff. How on Earth do you explain thinking that the problem with the media is that it was too hard on Paul Manafort, calling attention to crimes that would have otherwise escaped attention and leading to his punishment for breaking those laws, but you are upset with the media for not spending enough time trashing Hunter Biden, who at least used his connections in what seems to have been a completely legal, if somewhat distasteful way?

You’re conflating two distinct concepts, and I think you know it. I have no issue with the press slamming Manafort or using his ties to Ukraine to smear Trump. I had a problem with the use of prosecution and investigation as a tool to not just take him out politically, but also to take him out of society literally. He’d be free and running around in ostrich coats, like so many others who’ve done worse, but for his ego-driven decision to work for Trump.

(But I do feel a good bit of caveat emptor in regard to Manafort. Ego will kill you if you let it. Insecure man kinda getting what insecure people get. Too dumb to just enjoy the money... As if he couldn’t workout those loans.)

I’d be appalled if Trump got Barr to actually prosecute Hunter for something - even if Hunter were guilty of it - just because his dad was Trump’s opponent. That’s disgusting. But when the dirt of getting a $50k a month contract is out there, I have no problem with exploring its ickiness.

You’re mixing prosecutions and media smearing. Apples and Winnebagos.

ETA: I also have a problem with the Durham and Barr investigations of Clapper and Brennan. But then, who started all of this use-investigations-and-prosecutions-as-political-tools? Seems both parties have accepted this practice as a legitimate tool for many years. This is what you get in a shithole country, and this is increasingly a shithole country. And it isn’t because of and certainly didn’t only emerge during the presidency of Trump.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

You’re mixing prosecutions and media smearing.

I'm not confused about the differences, but Trump -- the man to whom DOJ reports -- asked Ukraine to open formal proceedings to investigate Biden, and invited them to work with the Attorney General. He could have smeared Biden without any of that. He was trying to kickstart a real investigation to make the smear (more) real. Do you not see any difference between that and, say, rage-tweeting?

And suppose it was just smearing. Why are you OK with government officials using their office to smear someone unfairly?

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

I'm not confused about the differences, but Trump -- the man to whom DOJ reports -- asked Ukraine to open formal proceedings to investigate Biden, and invited them to work with the Attorney General. He could have smeared Biden without any of that. He was trying to kickstart a real investigation to make the smear (more) real. Do you not see any difference between that and, say, rage-tweeting?

And suppose it was just smearing. Why are you OK with government officials using their office to smear someone unfairly?

Trump's actions in seeking to investigate for political reasons are indefensible. Seeking to imprison or fine Hunter for political gain is an abuse of the prosecutorial power, and if Barr went along with it, I think Barr would be subject to having his license suspended, and probably should have it suspended.*

Smearing is a different thing. I'm not as concerned about that. Were Trump to do it smartly, as many politicians do, by simply having intermediaries hint to foreign govt contacts that they'd really appreciate some dirt on an opponent, and such dirt were provided without an explicit quid pro quo, or any trail of written communication that could connect the request to the politician, it would be icky but fall into the "just politics" bin.

But this is Trump, and he can't do anything in an intelligent or carefully planned manner.

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* I think Barr is walking an ethical tightrope in going after Clapper and Brennan. But I'm not as concerned there because I think Brennan and Clapper are also unethical. Durham, Clapper, Barr, and Brennan deserve to drag each other down together. That's a Mexican standoff that ought to be allowed to move to completion.