The babyjesuschristsuperstar on Board: filling the moral void of Clinton’s legacy

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
It's deducted from wages. Where the actual incidence falls would of course depend on elasticity and so forth, but it is nominally paid by the employee, just as health care premiums, etc. are nominally paid by the employee.

I'm sure there are probably studies on who really pays the union dues.

When I worked at a grocery store, I had union dues withheld from my check after some waiting period. I didn't have a choice about it. But it reduced my pay and was visible to me.

ETA you are so totally not qualified even to be participating in this discussion. By revealing how you make utterly confident statements when you have no knowledge, you are undermining the effectiveness of anything you've ever said on this board. Kudos.

was your lunch free?

[Spanky]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
I don't think it's feasible to make a lot of stuff domestically now. But your much-admired corporations are working at least as hard as the unions to keep their companies alive, through subsidies and trade restrictions and all that other crap.

You are making assumptions that are unfounded. If I don't like Unions messing with the markets that does not mean I like corporations messing with the markets. If I don't like what unions do politically that does not mean I have to like everything companys do politically.

Corporations also lobby for protectionism, subsidies and tax breaks, and that sucks. The old joke is companys like free trade in everything except in their own industry. Industry specfic lobbying groups are almost always up to no good like the Unions. It is only the ination wide organizations that represent business, mainly the chamber of commerce, and exporting dependent businesses that I trust to promote sound economic policies.

ADM Corporation has done almost as much as the unions in screwing up US economic policy.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by taxwonk
No hate. I'm just acknowledging that I'm never going to change your mind about anything and you're never going to stop pissing me off when it comes to politics.

Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time, and you annoy the pig.

This is the same type of relentless harassment, PoPD and hate that drove Paigow off of the boards. Congrats on being a biased prejudiced hater. you remind of the typical liberal I meet in my day to day travels who eschews hate and bias and prejudice and professes to being an open minded progressive advocate of diversity and then ends up having a bumper sticker that says "FUCK BUSH AND THE REPUBLICANS".

Frankly you and your cohort's hate is a bit tiring.......making Paigow's offer of a position with her blog look more and more attractive at this point, which will leave you and your leftist dupes alone to blow each other to your lustful moral relativistic hearts content.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
was your lunch free?

I ate at TNSTAAFL.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Not Bob
I don't fail to grasp it. I even think that it can be a good thing, as the $2 a day wage may be more than the guy would be making had Nike not put the factory there.

My point had nothing to do with free trade, globalization, etc. I was simply pointing out that a labor market where there are no unions to "artificially interfere" with the supply and demand of labor is not a labor market where I would like to be a factory worker. And, AoN, not a place where a factory worker's son has a shot at becoming a lawyer.

As I said, I have no problem with unions working to get the most out of the market. It is when they influence the legislature to pass laws that try and prevent the 2$ job from going overseas that they screw everyone.

You had mentioned the 2$ job going overseas, and my point is complaining about it does no one any good. Nothing can stop job flight and job loss, the only thing you can do is try and create more jobs than you are losing.

But politically unions do not care about job creation.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Spanky
What you fail to grasp is that someone is going to make sneakers paying 2$ a day in Indonesia no matter what the US government does. Either it will be an american company or another company. If you prevent the American company from doing it they will not be able to sell their shoes as cheaply around the world as the company that does and the american company goes out of business. So all the other jobs that the American shoe company provides in america (managers, shoe designers, consultants, lawyers etc) will all be lost.

There is no way to stop outsourcing. The only thing you can do is drive american companys out of business by preventing them from taking advantage of cheap labour .

We live in a world market. Either we compete in it or we go out of business. The choice is that simple.

This is exactly what i said and for it I got PoPD and hate.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Spanky
You are making assumptions that are unfounded. If I don't like Unions messing with the markets that does not mean I like corporations messing with the markets. If I don't like what unions do politically that does not mean I have to like everything companys do politically.

Corporations also lobby for protectionism, subsidies and tax breaks, and that sucks. The old joke is companys like free trade in everything except in their own industry. Industry specfic lobbying groups are almost always up to no good like the Unions. It is only the ination wide organizations that represent business, mainly the chamber of commerce, and exporting dependent businesses that I trust to promote sound economic policies.

ADM Corporation has done almost as much as the unions in screwing up US economic policy.

Based on where you give money and support and vote, you should focus your efforts on discouraging the corporate crap. You have no pull with the politicians who vote to keep unions powerful, but you do have pull with those who pass shit like that corporate tax bullcrap handout from last year. That is, if you really want to do anything to make the situation better.

[andViolins]

Originally posted by Spanky
OK now I am confused. Absent a religious objection, are there not some companys where for every worker at the company the union gets money. Either it comes from the worker, or from the employer. Is that not ture?

Or can any company in the United STate hire someone who can then choose not to be part of the union and does not cause by their presence more money to be paid to the union by the employer?

It is certainly not my goal to confuse you. However, to clarify, it depends on the state that you live in. If you live in a right to work state, then yes, even if there is a union representing all of the widget makers, and you are hired to be a widget maker, then you cannot be required to pay union dues, be a member, or even pay fair share fee payer amounts. In non right to work states, unless you can qualify for a religious exemption, that same widget maker will be required to pay either union dues (and be a member) or pay a fair share amount (and not be a member).

Of course, this is thrown out the window if employees file a deauthorization petition with the NLRB and the employee vote to deauthorize (or "turn off" the dues check-off language).

Does that help?

aV

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Uh, what about all the entrepreneurial immigrants who came over and started businesses and scratched and worked themselves to the middle class and above?

I'd sooner be branded than carry a fucking union card. My immigrant forebears never got in spitting distance of a union. I think a lot of older people would get very offended at your generalization there. Some people got ahead in life by having ingenuity and working and taking some risks.

Pssst!

Sebby -- Your fly is open again. Don't worry, I don't think anyone else noticed.

S_A_M

(eta: Ooops. They noticed.)

[Spanky]

Originally posted by ltl/fb

ETA you are so totally not qualified even to be participating in this discussion. By revealing how you make utterly confident statements when you have no knowledge, you are undermining the effectiveness of anything you've ever said on this board. Kudos.

Give me a break. This coming from you is ridiculous. If you are insecure because you know so little about international labor economics or how unions effect policy don't try and take it out on me.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Spanky
Give me a break. This coming from you is ridiculous. If you are insecure because you know so little about international labor economics or how unions effect policy don't try and take it out on me.

Give me a double break. You phrase everything like it is the revealed word of god. It's dishonest and annoying.

You must have stopped doing it, at least for a while, because now that I'm saying that I recall that it was an annoying hallmark when you first appeared, but it hasn't been as evident lately.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
Yes, but unlike certain activist judges, the Founders did not see any mystical penumbras emanating from their work.

How do you know? Do you speak to them AND the baby jesus?

S_A_M

P.S. I'm beginning to think that Penske and Janice Rogers Brown were separated at birth. At a minimum, there is an obvious moral [and intellectual] equivalency.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by Spanky
because you know so little about international labor economics

Holy shit. This was discussed? Spanky's subtlety and capacity for nuanced argument increases by the day.

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by Spanky
You had mentioned the 2$ job going overseas,

No, I didn't. Here's what penske said and here's my reply. http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/sho...965#post222965

• Originally posted by Penske_Account
  They inefficiently add costs and distort markets. Let the free market for labour decide. People can share info and join together as they choose but employers are free to ignore those "unions".

• Originally posted by Not Bob
  I think that every person who spouts off on the "free market" as the be-all and end-all should try to live as a worker in such a "free market" system.
  
  I'm sure that you will have a new appreciation for the worker's freedom of job choice after a period of time making Nike sneakers for $2 a day in Indonesia.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
How do you know? Do you speak to them AND the baby jesus?

S_A_M

P.S. I'm beginning to think that Penske and Janice Rogers Brown were separated at birth. At a minimum, there is an obvious moral [and intellectual] equivalency.

Given her high level of positive achievement, I take that as a compliment. thanks.