I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.

[taxwonk]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

The only person she needs protection from is Putin.

This DNC email stuff is appetizers. The October surprise is going to be a hack of of the Clinton Global Initiative.

I love the argument that to support further disclosure of information hacked from Clinton, or Trump (the tax records have to be coming at some point) is unpatriotic. Where a campaign for President is being waged by two so uniquely grotesque individuals, supporting dissemination of such information is the very definition of patriotic. Putin's doing us a service. My only criticism is that it should be done to both sides.

Hillary's already disclosed her returns.

[taxwonk]

Originally Posted by Adder

Tell me again how you're not a misogynist? How do you write this stuff without asking yourself why you don't apply this lens to the men?

Start by reading this. Then read it again.

He's said the same of Trump a multitude of times, at least twice in the last 24 hours. Read, then react.

[taxwonk]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I would, but I can't. Trump clearly doesn't want power. If he did, he'd work for it. He'd be disciplined. He's obviously just a clown who loves adulation.

All that I said about Hillary applies exactly the same way to Ted Cruz. Were he running, I'd level exactly the same charges against him. Except the corruption. He's many things, but so far as we know, he's not corrupt.

Of course he's corrupt. If your wife works for Goldman Sachs, You speak to Goldman Sachs and then they give you a fucking boatload of money, that's corrupt. You shut the government down for a couple of days, depriving ordinary, working people of a day's earnings, not to mention the idiots in the State of Texas who voted for you being deprived on a Senator who gleefully flouts his vow of office, you're corrupt. You have your slimy little rat pawprints on the Yoo Memo, you're, if not corrupt, a minion of Satan, and that's just as bad. Cruz is Trump with a bigger set of insecurity issues and less of a conscience.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Adder

Which will undoubtedly uncover shocking details of.... sucking up to rich people in an effort to do good things in the world.

Did you really just write this?

Look, I'm sure CGI does much good. But if you think the quid pro quos done there are limited to the benign and noble, and aren't countered by many bad things resulting from its peddling of influence, well-- Actually, fuck that. It's impossible for you, or any sane person, to think that.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by taxwonk

Hillary's already disclosed her returns.

Who gives a fuck about an Oxford Comma? Apparently you do.

(I know she released hers [30 years worth, I think]... That shot was directed at Trump.)

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by taxwonk

He's said the same of Trump a multitude of times, at least twice in the last 24 hours. Read, then react.

Oh, you're going to spoil all the fun of having Adder call me a misogynist. He still thinks this place works like the comment section in DailyKos: Offer emotional argument rooted in identity politics/Claim moral high ground/Create pile-on by non-thinking emotional knee-jerkers.

ETA: Sometimes it does. But everyone knows when that sort of shit is happening, and skips over it.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by taxwonk

Of course he's corrupt. If your wife works for Goldman Sachs, You speak to Goldman Sachs and then they give you a fucking boatload of money, that's corrupt. You shut the government down for a couple of days, depriving ordinary, working people of a day's earnings, not to mention the idiots in the State of Texas who voted for you being deprived on a Senator who gleefully flouts his vow of office, you're corrupt. You have your slimy little rat pawprints on the Yoo Memo, you're, if not corrupt, a minion of Satan, and that's just as bad. Cruz is Trump with a bigger set of insecurity issues and less of a conscience.

I'm suspect of Goldman as anybody, but I can't call him corrupt on that basis alone.

The Yoo Memo is perhaps corruption, but like the rest of what you've cited, it's more ideological than for self-benefit. It's true that Cruz's ideological inflexibility aids him politically, as being an obstinate ass is his brand, but that form of corruption is a very different thing than the sort of sleazy self-interest, and sometimes outright graft, exhibited by Trump and Clinton.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by taxwonk

He's said the same of Trump a multitude of times, at least twice in the last 24 hours. Read, then react.

No, he's not said the same of Trump. He's equated Hillary, who at worst is a typical politician, with the absolute, objective insanity of Trump. That cuts exactly in the opposite direction that you imply.

Hillary is not in any way comparable to Trump. Heck, she's barely comparable to Cruz. She's Lindsay Graham or Jim Gilmore but gets rounded up to Trump or Cruz, well, just because. Surely, gender has nothing to do with it.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

But if you think the quid pro quos done there are limited to the benign and noble, and aren't countered by many bad things resulting from its peddling of influence

You don't even know when you've adopted the deranged. It's fascinating.

I'm sure there are mildly embarrassing things in the CGI's emails. There are in literally every orgs.

I'd lay money there's nothing there that would shock Fox News if it was in the Koch's emails.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

Also, what torture techniques did Japan use? It occurs to me they might not have used the best bright new shiney ones?

Hard to imagine what could be worse than being born with that last name.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I could almost see myself voting Hillary, but she's going to win my state anyway, and she's such a fucking scumbag. Additionally, she wants it too much. If you want power as badly as she clearly does, you're an unparalleled creep, with terminal and dangerous character flaws.

The level of personal animosity that you and many other people have towards Hillary is just weird to me. I'm certainly not crazy about her. She is not great in front of a camera or in front of a crowd, and I think she's very conscious of this and doesn't like those parts of what she does and this compounds things, and makes her seem inauthentic. I don't get "scumbag" at all. And I don't see how she's more ambitious than any other politician around.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

No, he's not said the same of Trump.

You're right. I called Trump corrupt, stupid, and incompetent. Hillary is not stupid or incompetent.

He's equated Hillary, who at worst is a typical politician, with the absolute, objective insanity of Trump.

See above.

Hillary is not in any way comparable to Trump.

They're both corrupt.

Heck, she's barely comparable to Cruz.

Different brands; same power obsessed character. I will say this... If forced to pick one of those two, I'd take her.

She's Lindsay Graham or Jim Gilmore but gets rounded up to Trump or Cruz, well, just because.

Graham's history of scandals, dodgy answers, and controversial Graham Global Initiative are indeed comparable. Gilmore's use of a private email server and destruction of 20,000 emails relevant to a corruption investigation are close. But it's not 30,000, so "apples and oranges."

Oh look, I've gone and engaged in misandry. And Graham may be gay. Homophobia to boot!

Surely, gender has nothing to do with it.

You keep waiting for that pile-on. I'm hearing crickets. (But I've no doubt, some fool will bite sooner or later and give you an 'atta boy... at least one always does.)

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

TPP's going through. She'll "evolve" on it.

I think you're right about her instincts on TPP, but given that anti-trade sentiment has some traction on both sides of the spectrum, we'll have to see what actually happens.

All that free college and student loan forgiveness: She won't even attempt it.

I think she will (1) do something small, or (2) propose something bigger than won't pass.

And getting money out of politics? She's the last person on earth who'll try that.

Sadly, it can't be done.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

The level of personal animosity that you and many other people have towards Hillary is just weird to me. I'm certainly not crazy about her. She is not great in front of a camera or in front of a crowd, and I think she's very conscious of this and doesn't like those parts of what she does and this compounds things, and makes her seem inauthentic. I don't get "scumbag" at all. And I don't see how she's more ambitious than any other politician around.

Too much dirt. It's like these people can't help themselves.

In 2008, she and Bill behaved like petulant children when Obama became a serious challenger. They thought then and still think now that they're entitled to the White House. (And they didn't mind playing racial politics back then, as I recall.)

And her taking on all of Bernie's positions, and basically plagiarizing his speeches, knowing full well she's going to give his followers nothing? It's as bad as Trump telling rubes in WV he's going to bring coal jobs back, or that he plans to rein in free trade.

She's too pure a politician. She stands for nothing. Pure politicians like her should pay dearly - brutally - to ascend to the office. The gauntlet should be so grueling it discourages such nakedly poll-driven power-mongers from attempting to reach it (or all but kill them in the process), and attracts outsiders with outside-Beltway vision.

I also detest neocons. I believe Wolfowitz, Perle, and all the other followers of Irving Kristol who crafted the Bush Doctrine are murderers. There's very little daylight between Hillary's and Bill Kristol's foreign policy.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Graham's history of scandals, dodgy answers, and controversial Graham Global Initiative are indeed comparable.
Gilmore's use of a private email server and destruction of 20,000 emails relevant to a corruption investigation are close.

Again, that you're crediting right-wing bullshit doesn't help you look any better here.