Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

I don't normally reply to the same post twice, but here goes:

I don't get how climate change got to be such a political issue. I don't know if we have done enough to actually cause the changes they say, and the science has to be very unpredictable, but so what? Almost all the changes are positive. We are better off with cleaner air and water, and we once thrived by driving innovation in the US (and we still do actually). Why not drive the new tech coming to address it?

All that said, I do believe the "we have 5 years to change or it'll be too late" stuff is ultimately harmful. First no one ever says what to change. But worse, there is a "oh well" aspect that comes from it. I mean the first time I heard it was 1990. Your boy Algore was saying it all through the 00's. Guess what? If they were right we are fucked.

And the thing is, no way the science can be that certain. The "test tube" is too big, too many variables.

IMO, climate change is political because a lot of lefties care about it and because conservatives (a) like to trigger the libs, and (b) keep business happy by promising to roll back government regulation, including environmental protections. No one is in favor of pollution.

[Icky Thump]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

Why? There is no peeling them off. I'm not talking about swing voters. I'm talking about Trump voters. The people who regret their vote do not fall into this category, their numbers are large, and they don't need convincing.

I think you are undercounting. These are white people who are paycheck to paycheck, pissed off at Washington who dialed right into his "Fuck Mexicans, fuck this group, fuck that group" message. I think this country is filled with too many of these to win an election without them.

But Trump is going to get fucking crushed.

TM

I wish but I do not see it. Given the shit state of affairs with democrat candidates and given the heavy reliance of such candidates on #metoo #safespace and stances too progressive for the above group, my fear/prediction is that he is absolutely going to annihilate whoever they put up.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Adder

This nonsense is how you let yourself get owned by the Gary Johnson's of the world.

How did I get owned? I knew the man was a screwball. He was a protest vote.

And honestly, I’m pretty much exactly where I was under Trump as I was under Obama. The benefits Trump provided on the tax side were washed by his tariffs, which caused an increase in materials costs, which fucked me up on the business revenue side. The shutdown also fucked me up.

I don’t like Trump. But the last two years haven’t been much different than most others. It’s like there’s this mad lunatic at the wheel, but the plane’s on auto pilot, so he can’t do too much damage.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Thanks to Obama and the Democrats, and despite the best efforts of most Republicans, close friends of mine have coverage through the ACA. It may not be important to you, but it is to them, and to me.

True. That was a big deal.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Icky Thump

I think you are undercounting. These are white people who are paycheck to paycheck, pissed off at Washington who dialed right into his "Fuck Mexicans, fuck this group, fuck that group" message. I think this country is filled with too many of these to win an election without them.


I wish but I do not see it. Given the shit state of affairs with democrat candidates and given the heavy reliance of such candidates on #metoo #safespace and stances too progressive for the above group, my fear/prediction is that he is absolutely going to annihilate whoever they put up.

You think enough red hat folks are out there to repeat a Blue Wall sweep and overcome the new ex-felon vote in Florida? That’s a lot of red hats.

I also don’t think the #trigger and #safespace backlash is big. I think that stuff is comprised of smaller events blown up by MSNBC and Fox. That wedge issue helps drive out the Trump base, but I don’t think it brings in new votes.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

I don't normally reply to the same post twice, but here goes:

I don't get how climate change got to be such a political issue. I don't know if we have done enough to actually cause the changes they say, and the science has to be very unpredictable, but so what? Almost all the changes are positive. We are better off with cleaner air and water, and we once thrived by driving innovation in the US (and we still do actually). Why not drive the new tech coming to address it?

All that said, I do believe the "we have 5 years to change or it'll be too late" stuff is ultimately harmful. First no one ever says what to change. But worse, there is a "oh well" aspect that comes from it. I mean the first time I heard it was 1990. Your boy Algore was saying it all through the 00's. Guess what? If they were right we are fucked.

And the thing is, no way the science can be that certain. The "test tube" is too big, too many variables.

I'm happy to have government do what it can to encourage cleaner greener buildings and industry, and they certainly can through everything from zoning (where's Atticus?! sniff sniff) to getting rid of incentives for oil and gas production. But at the end of the day, its going to be tech and changing lifestyles that has the biggest impact.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Icky Thump

I think you are undercounting. These are white people who are paycheck to paycheck, pissed off at Washington who dialed right into his "Fuck Mexicans, fuck this group, fuck that group" message. I think this country is filled with too many of these to win an election without them.


I wish but I do not see it. Given the shit state of affairs with democrat candidates and given the heavy reliance of such candidates on #metoo #safespace and stances too progressive for the above group, my fear/prediction is that he is absolutely going to annihilate whoever they put up.

70% of Wall St. “insiders” think Trump will win in 2020: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/05/70pe...d-in-2020.html

These same folks also declared Hillary a lock, so...

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Icky Thump

I think you are undercounting. These are white people who are paycheck to paycheck, pissed off at Washington who dialed right into his "Fuck Mexicans, fuck this group, fuck that group" message. I think this country is filled with too many of these to win an election without them.

I think this may be the only time in recorded history that a white dude thought there were more racists in this country than I do.

I think his racist base is a large portion of the Republican Party, but I don't think a lot of the people who may lean racist (and who threw him a vote last time) are okay with supporting someone who sees good people in Nazis.

Originally Posted by Icky Thump

I wish but I do not see it. Given the shit state of affairs with democrat candidates and given the heavy reliance of such candidates on #metoo #safespace and stances too progressive for the above group, my fear/prediction is that he is absolutely going to annihilate whoever they put up.

I honestly don't think the Democratic Party is as touchy-feely as you make it out. Hillary crushed Bernie because there are a lot of people who don't show up at rallies who vote Democrat. We get a skewed view of who is controlling the party because the press loves something new and shiny and they need clicks. So, they feature Beto, AOC, and [clutch-your-pearls] Omar!

But Biden will survive this silliness and will be the nominee. The most shaking up that will be done is he'll pick Harris or Beto. Biden is a decent human being and it will be obvious when he's standing next to Trump.

TM

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

How did I get owned? I knew the man was a screwball. He was a protest vote.

Based on the false premise that your vote did not matter and both parties are the same...

And honestly, I’m pretty much exactly where I was under Trump as I was under Obama.

Normal human beings also care, at least a little, about what happens to people who are not them.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Icky Thump

I wish but I do not see it. Given the shit state of affairs with democrat candidates and given the heavy reliance of such candidates on #metoo #safespace and stances too progressive for the above group, my fear/prediction is that he is absolutely going to annihilate whoever they put up.

Huh? The only candidate who I would say is heavily focused on metoo is Kirsten Gillibrand, who is also being criticized by lots of progressives for lots of other things.

All in all, the Democratic field is solid, experienced, and intelligent. They have a wide variety of different positions - Liz Warren is likely the most progressive on the issues, with the others stretching out toward the center from her.

[Icky Thump]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Huh? The only candidate who I would say is heavily focused on metoo is Kirsten Gillibrand, who is also being criticized by lots of progressives for lots of other things.

All in all, the Democratic field is solid, experienced, and intelligent. They have a wide variety of different positions - Liz Warren is likely the most progressive on the issues, with the others stretching out toward the center from her.

Love them both. But then again I love the Jets. None of these have a shot.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Icky Thump

Love them both. But then again I love the Jets. None of these have a shot.

Do you think Obama would beat Trump if he could run in 2020?

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Icky Thump

Love them both. But then again I love the Jets. None of these have a shot.

I've been through a lot of campaigns, and watched Carter, Clinton and Obama rise from relative obscurity to election and come out of a campaign looking very different than they went in. I've watched Biden walk into two campaigns looking like he was one of the guys with stature and then just completely blow it. Give them all time and room, and see which ones rise to the occasion.

Really, you love the Jets?

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Do you think Obama would beat Trump if he could run in 2020?

Yes. Unquestionably.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Adder

Normal human beings also care, at least a little, about what happens to people who are not them.

You can use that argument from both sides. Every new program, including the ACA, costs others elsewhere. It also had a negative impact on full time hiring, and contributed to underemployment.

I'm not arguing against the ACA. It has had a positive impact on HC cost inflation. I'm merely noting, to care about one group often involves not caring about an impact to another. Some people somewhere are paying the tab, in terms of both adverse economic impact and taxes.

An argument I frequently hear from people on the right (I had dinner with several imaginary right leaners, and a few imaginary moderates just this weekend) is that we're giving free HC to the destitute and getting nothing in return. Forty percent of births are covered by Medicaid right now. That means the working poor, the middle, and the rich are paying for someone to get something. One should care about these people. But one should also recognize that some very hardworking people are subsidizing these people. Who cares about them?