Cars and Other Driving Machines

[NotFromHere]

Originally posted by mmm3587
$1100/month? Isn't the base Cayenne less than $50k? Even with the problematic VW engine, it seems like a good deal. I heard you can get the cheapest Cayenne for about what it costs for the cheapest Touareg, which is pretty amazing considering you get the Porsche interior.

ETA...

Looks like the MSRP of the base Cayenne in an absurdly low $42,900, compared to a lower but same ballpark $37,140 for the Touareg. I'll bet you can't find either one close to that stripped, though, and the options of both make them add up fast.

Yes, the base Cayenne is $44,100, but you'd never own that one. Porsche, as typical of Porsche, prices out all options individually. So there are no luxury packages, cold weather packages, sport package deals. Each and every fucking thing added to the price - even power seats. The base model that I priced out ended up being $56k. But still, their lease program is/was 40 months not 36. When I asked the guy to do that math he got all quiet. Let's see, 40 months at $1100 is $44,000. Hm. And the residual was a ridiculous $36k. And that was his 2nd offer. First offer was stupider. We laughed, then we left.

Paint - $495
Wheels - $2190
Partial leather (PARTIAL!!) $2990
Cold weather package (basically heated seats and wheel) $2680
Touring package (6 cd changer, parking assist - yes it comes with a cassette deck otherwise!) $4500
Convenience package (sunroof, xenons) $3860

[Flinty_McFlint]

Originally posted by NotFromHere
Yes, the base Cayenne is $44,100, but you'd never own that one. Porsche, as typical of Porsche, prices out all options individually. So there are no luxury packages, cold weather packages, sport package deals. Each and every fucking thing added to the price - even power seats. The base model that I priced out ended up being $56k. But still, their lease program is/was 40 months not 36. When I asked the guy to do that math he got all quiet. Let's see, 40 months at $1100 is $44,000. Hm. And the residual was a ridiculous $36k. And that was his 2nd offer. First offer was stupider. We laughed, then we left.

Paint - $495
Wheels - $2190
Partial leather (PARTIAL!!) $2990
Cold weather package (basically heated seats and wheel) $2680
Touring package (6 cd changer, parking assist - yes it comes with a cassette deck otherwise!) $4500
Convenience package (sunroof, xenons) $3860

Jesus. My base model MDX is looking better and better. Ok, not really.

[mmm3587]

Originally posted by NotFromHere
Yes, the base Cayenne is $44,100, but you'd never own that one. Porsche, as typical of Porsche, prices out all options individually. So there are no luxury packages, cold weather packages, sport package deals. Each and every fucking thing added to the price - even power seats. The base model that I priced out ended up being $56k. But still, their lease program is/was 40 months not 36. When I asked the guy to do that math he got all quiet. Let's see, 40 months at $1100 is $44,000. Hm. And the residual was a ridiculous $36k. And that was his 2nd offer. First offer was stupider. We laughed, then we left.

Paint - $495
Wheels - $2190
Partial leather (PARTIAL!!) $2990
Cold weather package (basically heated seats and wheel) $2680
Touring package (6 cd changer, parking assist - yes it comes with a cassette deck otherwise!) $4500
Convenience package (sunroof, xenons) $3860

Yeah, it adds up, but it's pretty cheap to start, and you get to say you own (and be seen in) a Porsche, which has to be pretty important for someone buying a base Cayenne.

Paying $44,000 to own a $56k car for 40 months when that car will be worth $36k afterwards just doesn't make sense. Maybe they just have shitty lease deals, but that's just insane. And considering the cost of a car to be whatever monthly rate the finance guy pushes on you smacks of being taken advantage of. Most any credit union or bank will offer a well-employed person with good credit 3.9% or so financing on a new car, so just go in with a cash offer based on your outside financing. Based on the $56k MSRP (which you probably don't need to pay, anyway), a monthly payment for 40 months which would pay off the entire $56,000 with interest in 40 months is only $1,495. Paying $1,100 a month to have nothing at the end makes absolutely no sense. Either the math is wrong, or Porsche only offer horrendous lease rates.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by pony_trekker
I might just break down and get one of these:

They run forever. I'm on my second and the damn things don't give up. The problem is they get a bit rickety at higher miles.

[baltassoc]

Originally posted by mmm3587
Either the math is wrong, or Porsche only offer horrendous lease rates.

Or (nothing personal NFH), NFH's credit sucks ass.

ETA: Or the Porshe guy thought that since NFH is a girl, and as Barbie says, "Math is hard," he could pocket a huge commission.

Obviously, he was wrong.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by NotFromHere
You and me both. I used to have a Porsche. Now I drive an SUV so we can "actually take luggage to the airport and pick people up when they come and visit and not make them sit on the hump of a sports car."

I drove the 04 G35 with auto and manual. A HP increase was not what it needed. It was a very adequately powered car with excellent road manners. It needed help in the interior which was designed with 21 yo guy and his first purchase in mind. It looked like it was trying too hard to be a Lexus IS200 only not quite.

Shit, go find a buddy with an auction card and get youself any number of used higher end vehicles. New cars are a fucking joke. They're priced artificially high in part because no one buys any of them new anymore.

I'm thinking about buying a 2000-2002 S Class sedan. I think I can pick one off in the used market for 35k with around 45k miles on it. Since that car will never die and has luxury options most cars will not have for years, I won't need a replacement forever. I fucked around with getting a CLK coupe used, as 2000-2001 models are all over the market at $30k, but why take that when I can snag an S? Hell, some cat's unloading a gorgeous '98 500SL at a dealership around the corner from me for 28k, with something like 30k miles on it. That car can be driven hard for another 170k miles. I've also looked at the Lexus LS 430. A model a few years old trades at a pretty reasonable number and will run forever.

Unfortunately, the only BMWs to run forever are the 5 Series and 3 Series. The X5 is still not tested in the high range yet as it hasn't been around long enough and the 7 Series folds in the street at 120k miles. I love the 5, but for that price, why not shoot for a used S Class for a few bucks more?

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
They're priced artificially high in part because no one buys any of them new anymore.

Is that like the restaurant that's so crowded no one goes there any more?

[Flanders]

Originally posted by baltassoc
I wasn't suggesting that you dislike cars manufactured in America, but rather noting that every comment you have about a car compares it unfavorablely to a BMW. You know what you like. That's okay.

And BMW's plant is in Ashville, SC. I have some inlaws in the area. No one quite knows what to make of all the Germans suddenly popping up around town.

Actually BMNA's plant is in Spartanburg, SC along with the BMW Zentrum. http://www.bmwzentrum.com/ (Greer, SC if you want to be 100% correct) Asheville is in NC, not SC.

You can take performance delivery at the plant, great experience. Also, they have an offroad x5 proving grounds you can drive (I know -who actually takes their SUV off road, but what the hell. . . .)

[NotFromHere]

Originally posted by baltassoc
Or (nothing personal NFH), NFH's credit sucks ass.

ETA: Or the Porshe guy thought that since NFH is a girl, and as Barbie says, "Math is hard," he could pocket a huge commission.

Obviously, he was wrong.

No. My credit is fine. Porsche and Mercedes have unusually bad lease programs. Typically the worst in the market. Compare a 3 year lease on an comparably equipped X5 for 36 months at under $600/month.
I'm no rube. Porsche would prefer that you buy. The resale value while high, is not high enough for them to offer decent lease programs.

[Flanders]

Originally posted by Flinty_McFlint
Jesus. My base model MDX is looking better and better. Ok, not really.

Acura does a great job at offering better bang for the buck on options. Spending 45-50k for a car that does not include leather just does not seem right. (X5, Canyonero, etc)

Someone mentioned the interior on the G35 earlier, I walked away from it bc of this very reason, looks like a 70's Emerson clock radio with those cheap silver plastic bush buttons.

[NotFromHere]

Originally posted by Flanders
Acura does a great job at offering better bang for the buck on options. Spending 45-50k for a car that does not include leather just does not seem right. (X5, Canyonero, etc)

Someone mentioned the interior on the G35 earlier, I walked away from it bc of this very reason, looks like a 70's Emerson clock radio with those cheap silver plastic bush buttons.

Exactly. They should have spent just a couple more bucks on the interior and maybe people over 20 would want it.

Back in the day, (2 years, 11 months ago) almost all the X5s came with leather. There weren't very many without the luxury package (sunroof, leather). I can't imagine spending that kind of money and not getting leather and a sunroof. Hell, I can't even drive a vehicle without a sunroof.

I paid $44,000. Now, a comparably equipped X5 goes for closer to $56k. That said, they are nicer now. The sunroof is "panorama" and the steering is much improved, as is the gas mileage.

[Flanders]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Shit, go find a buddy with an auction card and get youself any number of used higher end vehicles. New cars are a fucking joke. They're priced artificially high in part because no one buys any of them new anymore.

I'm thinking about buying a 2000-2002 S Class sedan. I think I can pick one off in the used market for 35k with around 45k miles on it. Since that car will never die and has luxury options most cars will not have for years, I won't need a replacement forever. I fucked around with getting a CLK coupe used, as 2000-2001 models are all over the market at $30k, but why take that when I can snag an S? Hell, some cat's unloading a gorgeous '98 500SL at a dealership around the corner from me for 28k, with something like 30k miles on it. That car can be driven hard for another 170k miles. I've also looked at the Lexus LS 430. A model a few years old trades at a pretty reasonable number and will run forever.

Unfortunately, the only BMWs to run forever are the 5 Series and 3 Series. The X5 is still not tested in the high range yet as it hasn't been around long enough and the 7 Series folds in the street at 120k miles. I love the 5, but for that price, why not shoot for a used S Class for a few bucks more?

I have never owned a new car in my life. (Then again, I enjoy someone else’s 1-2 yr old ass smell in my leather)

Speaking of auctions: Attached is a sale list (LONG) from the BMW Financial Services auction near Chicago. Good way to save 5-7k on some of the cars. Great deals on the e46 M3's. Looks like the value is holding on the e39 5 series.

BMW Wholesale Auction Results - Manheim - November 10, 2004

Year Make Model Color Drs Engine Trans Options Mileage Price
1999 BMW M3 DAKARGEL 2 6C Gas 5 Tape, EW, Lthr, CV 44042 $18500
2001 BMW M3 SILVER 2 6C Gas 6 Tape, EW, Lthr, MR 44176 $31250
2002 BMW M3 SCHWARZ 2 6C Gas 5 CD, EW, Lthr, MR 34679 $36000
2003 BMW M3 SCHWARZ 2 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, CV 22263 $43750
2001 BMW M3 CI SCHWARZ 2 6C Gas 6 CD, EW, Lthr, MR 38429 $33500
2000 BMW M5 BLUE 4 6C Gas 6 B, EW, Lthr, MR 46014 $36000
1999 BMW Z3 2.3 BLUE 2 6C Gas 5 CD, EW, Lthr, CV 51144 $13500
2002 BMW Z3 2.5 SIENAROT 2 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, CV 17686 $22000
2002 BMW Z3 2.5 TITANSIL 2 6C Gas 5 CD, EW, Lthr, HT 37355 $20000
2000 BMW Z3 2.8 SCHWARZ 2 6C Gas 5 CD, EW, Lthr, CV 41721 $17000
2001 BMW Z3 3.0 TITANSIL 2 6C Gas 5 CD, EW, Lthr, CV 7797 $22000
2001 BMW Z3 3.0 HELLROT 2 6C Gas 5 CD, EW, Lthr, CV 34978 $19500
2001 BMW Z3 3.0 OXFORDGR 2 6C Gas 5 B, EW, Lthr, CV 22004 $20000
2003 BMW Z4 3.0 SCHWARZ 2 6C Gas S CD, EW, Lthr, CV 5782 $31250
2000 BMW 323CI SCHWARZ 2 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 77039 $14500
1998 BMW 323IS WHITE 2 6C Gas A Tape, EW, Lthr, MR 87903 $7900
2000 BMW 323IT RED S 6C Gas 5 Tape, EW, Lthr 33032 $13800
2002 BMW 325CI JAPANROT 2 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 42836 $21750
2002 BMW 325CI SCHWARZ 2 6C Gas A CD, EW, MR 29057 $23000
2002 BMW 325CI SCHWARZ 2 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 41223 $21000
2002 BMW 325CI ORIENTBL 2 6C Gas A CD, EW, MR 45834 $21250
2003 BMW 325CI SCHWRZ 2 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 4465 $27750
2002 BMW 325CIC TITANSIL 2 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, CV 46396 $28000
1994 BMW 325I WHITE 4 6C Gas 5 Tape, EW, Lthr, SR 86320 $5600
2002 BMW 325I SCHWARZ 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 35139 $22500
2002 BMW 325I ORIENTBL 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 65253 $16500
2001 BMW 325I I HELLROT 4 6C Gas A Tape, EW, Lthr, MR 32955 $19500
2001 BMW 325I I SCHWARZ 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 31273 $19500
2001 BMW 325I I SCHWARZ 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, MR 34908 $20500
2001 BMW 325I I TITANSIL 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, MR 31492 $20750
2001 BMW 325XI XI SCHWARZ 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 47452 $21250
2002 BMW 325XI XI TITANSIL 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 44820 $23250
2002 BMW 325XI XI STAHLGRA 4 6C Gas 5 CD, EW 36883 $23000
2003 BMW 325XI AWD BLACK 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 16922 $27500
1999 BMW 328I ORIENTBL 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 72466 $15000
2000 BMW 328I ORIETBLA 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 56603 $16250
2001 BMW 330 I SCHWARZ 4 6C Gas 5 CD, EW, Lthr, MR 14071 $21500
2001 BMW 330 I TITANSIL 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 46025 $21750
2001 BMW 330 I STAHLBLU 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 28191 $22500
2001 BMW 330CI HELLROT 2 6C Gas A Tape, EW, Lthr, MR 48322 $21250
2001 BMW 330CI SCHWRZ 2 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 34196 $23500
2002 BMW 330CI GRAY 2 6C Gas 5 CD, EW, Lthr, MR 44366 $23250
2002 BMW 330CIC RED 2 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, CV 52638 $27500
2002 BMW 330CIC TITANSIL 2 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, CV 20263 $33500
2002 BMW 330CIC TITANSIL 2 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, CV 46115 $28500
2002 BMW 330XI XI STAHLGRA 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 45895 $27250
2002 BMW 330XI XI OXFORDGR 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 35430 $27250
2002 BMW 330XI XI SCHWARZ 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 34306 $28000
2002 BMW 330XI XI ORIENTBL 4 6C Gas A Tape, EW, Lthr, MR 64273 $24000
1995 BMW 525I CHARCOAL 4 6C Gas A Tape, EW, Lthr, SR 166965 $2800
2001 BMW 525I TITANIUM S 6C Gas 5 CD, EW, Lthr, MR 53487 $18000
2001 BMW 525I SCHWARZ 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 41582 $21500
2001 BMW 525I TITANSIL 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 37139 $24000
2001 BMW 525I JAPANROT 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 55306 $21000
2001 BMW 525I STAHLBLA 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 74175 $17500
2001 BMW 525I TITANSIL 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 48909 $20500
2001 BMW 525I ALPINWEI 4 6C Gas A B, EW, Lthr, MR 47518 $24000
2001 BMW 525I TITANSIL 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 39029 $24000
2002 BMW 525I BLACKSAP 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 51629 $21000
2002 BMW 525I SCHWARZ 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 39127 $24500
2003 BMW 525I TITANSIL 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 39731 $27500
2003 BMW 525I SILVER 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 26402 $29500
1998 BMW 528I SCHWARZ 4 6C Gas A Tape, EW, MR 92644 $12000
1998 BMW 528I ARKTISIL 4 6C Gas A Tape, EW, Lthr, MR 73389 $12750
1998 BMW 528I ALPINWEI 4 6C Gas A Tape, EW, Lthr, MR 83204 $12500
1999 BMW 528I BIARRITZ 4 6C Gas A B, EW, Lthr, MR 57734 $16500
2000 BMW 528I SCHWARZ 4 6C Gas A Tape, EW, Lthr, MR 34317 $21250
2001 BMW 530I STAHLBL 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 46343 $22000
2001 BMW 530I SCHWARZ 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 68075 $17000
2001 BMW 530I TITANSIL 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 49972 $20750
2001 BMW 530I TITANSIL 4 6C Gas A B, EW, Lthr, MR 66347 $19750
2001 BMW 530I TITANSIL 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 49177 $23500
2002 BMW 530I TOLEDOBL 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 44723 $26750
2002 BMW 530I STERLING 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 25968 $33000
2002 BMW 530I SCHWARZ 4 6C Gas 5 CD, EW, Lthr, MR 30996 $27500
2002 BMW 530I TITANSIL 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 40509 $30000
2002 BMW 530I TOLEDOBL 4 6C Gas A Tape, EW, Lthr, MR 48332 $25000
2002 BMW 530I TITANIUM 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 49976 $25250
2002 BMW 530I STAHLBLA 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 44526 $25000
2002 BMW 530I TITANSIL 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 32282 $31750
2002 BMW 530I TITANSIL 4 6C Gas 5 CD, EW, Lthr, MR 44526 $24500
2002 BMW 530I SCHWARZ 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 41095 $29500
2002 BMW 530I TITANSIL 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 75946 $20500
2003 BMW 530I STERLING 4 6C Gas 5 CD, EW, Lthr, MR 23838 $34000
1997 BMW 540I WHITE 4 8C Gas 6 Tape, EW, Lthr, MR 112564 $10200
2001 BMW 540I TITANSIL 4 8C Gas 6 Tape, EW, Lthr, MR 24507 $32500
2001 BMW 540I SCHWARZ 4 8C Gas 6 CD, EW, Lthr, MR 46509 $25500
2001 BMW 540I COSMOSSC 4 8C Gas 6 B, EW, Lthr, MR 41155 $29000
2001 BMW 540I ANTHRAZI 4 8C Gas 6 CD, EW, Lthr, MR 36057 $30750
2002 BMW 540I TOPASBLA 4 8C Gas 6 B, EW, Lthr, MR 45201 $31500
2002 BMW 540I TOPASBLU 4 8C Gas 6 B, EW, Lthr, MR 38754 $33250
2003 BMW 540I BLACKSAP 4 8C Gas 6 CD, EW, Lthr, MR 13354 $43000
1999 BMW 540IA BIARRITZ 4 8C Gas A B, EW, Lthr, MR 52515 $17500
2001 BMW 540IA SIENAROT 4 8C Gas A Tape, EW, Lthr, MR 29881 $28500
2001 BMW 540IA TITANSIL 4 8C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 47291 $23750
2001 BMW 540IA OXFORDGR 4 8C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 41252 $26500
2001 BMW 540IA TITANSIL 4 8C Gas A Tape, EW, Lthr, MR 76413 $21500
2001 BMW 540IA SCHWARZ 4 8C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 43834 $31250
2002 BMW 540IA SCHWARZ 4 8C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 55337 $29500
2004 BMW 545I SILBERGR 4 8C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 8082 $51000
2000 BMW 740I ANTHRAZI 4 8C Gas A B, EW, Lthr, MR 66277 $20000
2001 BMW 740I OXFORDGR 4 8C Gas A B, EW, Lthr, MR 61734 $21000
2001 BMW 740I IMOLAROT 4 8C Gas A B, EW, Lthr, MR 53810 $25250
2001 BMW 740I ANTHRAZI 4 8C Gas A B, EW, Lthr, MR 28878 $31000
1997 BMW 740IL GREEN 4 8C Gas A Tape, EW, Lthr, MR 107872 $8100
1999 BMW 740IL OXFORDGR 4 8C Gas A B, EW, Lthr, MR 61349 $15500
2000 BMW 740IL ORIENT 4 8C Gas A B, EW, Lthr, MR 96918 $13750
2001 BMW 740IL ANTHRAZI 4 8C Gas A B, EW, Lthr, MR 50084 $26000
2001 BMW 740IL NACHTBLU 4 8C Gas A B, EW, Lthr, MR 31803 $29750
2001 BMW 740IL SCHWARZ 4 8C Gas A B, EW, Lthr, MR 43623 $30000
2001 BMW 740IL SCHWARZ 4 8C Gas A B, EW, Lthr, MR 49782 $27000
2001 BMW 740IL SCHWARZ 4 8C Gas A B, EW, Lthr, MR 38407 $32500
2001 BMW 740IL SCHWARZ 4 8C Gas A B, EW, Lthr, MR 72139 $21500
2001 BMW 740IL BIARRITB 4 8C Gas A B, EW, Lthr, MR 54928 $24250
2002 BMW 745I STERLING 4 8C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 11304 $49500
2002 BMW 745I SCHWARZ 4 8C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 22011 $45500
2002 BMW 745I TOLEDOBL 4 8C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 48824 $39750
2002 BMW 745I TITANSIL 4 8C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 29763 $45000
2003 BMW 745I TITANGRA 4 8C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 35692 $47500
2003 BMW 745I BLACKSAP 4 8C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 18958 $53500
2002 BMW 745LI SCHWARZ 4 8C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 24562 $50000
2002 BMW 745LI BLACKSAP 4 8C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 33194 $48000
2003 BMW 745LI ALPINE 4 8C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 34078 $51000
2004 BMW 745LI SCHWARZ 4 8C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 25026 $59000
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 AWD 3.0L BLACK 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 36243 $27000
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 AWD 3.0L SILVER 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 59567 $23100
2000 BMW TRUCK X5 AWD 4.4I TAN 4 8C Gas A Tape, EW, Lthr, MR 95777 $17700
2000 BMW TRUCK X5 AWD 4.4I BLUE 4 8C Gas A Tape, EW, Lthr, MR 47989 $23500
2003 BMW TRUCK X5 4X4 3.0I BLUE 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 25398 $33500
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 3.0L XI ALPINE 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 34071 $27500
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 3.0L XI PEARLBEI 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 26683 $27750
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 3.0L XI MAHAGONI 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 47350 $27000
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 3.0L XI TITANSIL 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 61801 $24000
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 3.0L XI TITANSIL 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, MR 44514 $25500
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 3.0L XI SCHWARZ 4 6C Gas T CD, EW, Lthr, MR 26879 $28000
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 3.0L XI PEARLBEI 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 39709 $26000
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 3.0L XI MAHAGONI 4 6C Gas A B, EW, Lthr, MR 42846 $27000
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 3.0L XI TITANSIL 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 27116 $26000
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 3.0L XI PEARLBEI 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 47305 $25000
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 3.0L XI TOPASBLU 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 63405 $24500
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 3.0L XI SCHWARZ 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 44352 $26250
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 3.0L XI TITANIUM 4 6C Gas 5 CD, EW, Lthr, MR 25844 $28000
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 3.0L XI ALPINWEI 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 43164 $26750
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 3.0L XI TITANSIL 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 30284 $28500
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 3.0L XI TITANSIL 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 38023 $27500
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 3.0L XI SCHWARZ 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 57881 $27000
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 3.0L XI SCHWARZ 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 44539 $27500
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 3.0L XI SCHWARZ 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 51434 $26250
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 3.0L XI OXFORDGR 4 6C Gas A Tape, EW, Lthr, MR 37620 $27250
2002 BMW TRUCK X5 3.0L XI TOPASBLA 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 40456 $28750
2002 BMW TRUCK X5 3.0L XI PEARLBEI 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 30801 $28000
2002 BMW TRUCK X5 3.0L XI STAHLGRA 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 45097 $28000
2002 BMW TRUCK X5 3.0L XI TITANSIL 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 36261 $31750
2002 BMW TRUCK X5 3.0L XI TITANSIL 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 59563 $24500
2002 BMW TRUCK X5 3.0L XI PEARLBEI 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 64509 $24500
2002 BMW TRUCK X5 3.0L XI OXFORDGR 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 54985 $27500
2002 BMW TRUCK X5 3.0L XI TITANSIL 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 27896 $31500
2002 BMW TRUCK X5 3.0L XI SCHWARZ 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 45389 $27000
2002 BMW TRUCK X5 3.0L XI STAHLGRA 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 35505 $30000
2002 BMW TRUCK X5 3.0L XI SCHWARZ 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 61614 $29750
2003 BMW TRUCK X5 3.0L XI TITANSIL 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 22425 $36000
2003 BMW TRUCK X5 3.0L XI STAHLGRA 4 6C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 49267 $31000
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 4.4L XI SCHWARZ 4 8C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 51031 $26000
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 4.4L XI TITANIUM 4 8C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 56969 $25000
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 4.4L XI TITANSIL 4 8C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 35240 $28500
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 4.4L XI SCHWARZ 4 8C Gas A Tape, EW, Lthr, MR 23358 $32500
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 4.4L XI TITANSIL 4 8C Gas A B, EW, Lthr 50533 $24000
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 4.4L XI TOPASBLA 4 8C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 50842 $25500
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 4.4L XI SCHWARZ 4 8C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 65128 $25750
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 4.4L XI PEARLBEI 4 8C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 60418 $25500
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 4.4L XI SCHWARZ 4 8C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 59237 $26750
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 4.4L XI MAHAGONI 4 8C Gas A B, EW, Lthr, MR 28711 $33250
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 4.4L XI ALPINWEI 4 8C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr 45508 $28250
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 4.4L XI SCHWARZ 4 8C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 36242 $30250
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 4.4L XI ALPINWEI 4 8C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 59008 $24000
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 4.4L XI MAHAGONI 4 8C Gas A Tape, EW, Lthr, MR 14167 $32000
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 4.4L XI OXFORDGR 4 8C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 29377 $27000
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 4.4L XI SCHWARZ 4 8C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 44887 $28250
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 4.4L XI ALPINE 4 8C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 40723 $28500
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 4.4L XI ALPINWEI 4 8C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 23599 $30000
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 4.4L XI TITANSIL 4 8C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 29180 $30500
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 4.4L XI SCHWARZ 4 8C Gas A B, EW, Lthr, MR 45437 $29250
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 4.4L XI TITANSIL 4 8C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 17346 $32250
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 4.4L XI TITANSIL 4 8C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 42942 $27750
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 4.4L XI PEARLBEI 4 8C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 35484 $28500
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 4.4L XI TITANSIL 4 8C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 51949 $24500
2002 BMW TRUCK X5 4.4L XI PEARLBEI 4 8C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 34574 $32000
2002 BMW TRUCK X5 4.4L XI SCHWARZ 4 8C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr 31344 $33250
2003 BMW TRUCK X5 4.4L XI SCHWARZ 4 8C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 28452 $41750
2003 BMW TRUCK X5 4.4L XI BLACKSAP 4 8C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 39028 $37000
2001 BMW TRUCK X5 4.4L AWD 4.4L BLACK 4 8C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 50767 $27400
2002 BMW TRUCK X5 4.6L XI IMOLAROT 4 8C Gas A CD, EW, Lthr, MR 57724 $39000

[NotFromHere]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Shit, go find a buddy with an auction card and get youself any number of used higher end vehicles. New cars are a fucking joke. They're priced artificially high in part because no one buys any of them new anymore.

I'm thinking about buying a 2000-2002 S Class sedan. I think I can pick one off in the used market for 35k with around 45k miles on it. Since that car will never die and has luxury options most cars will not have for years, I won't need a replacement forever. I fucked around with getting a CLK coupe used, as 2000-2001 models are all over the market at $30k, but why take that when I can snag an S? Hell, some cat's unloading a gorgeous '98 500SL at a dealership around the corner from me for 28k, with something like 30k miles on it. That car can be driven hard for another 170k miles. I've also looked at the Lexus LS 430. A model a few years old trades at a pretty reasonable number and will run forever.

Unfortunately, the only BMWs to run forever are the 5 Series and 3 Series. The X5 is still not tested in the high range yet as it hasn't been around long enough and the 7 Series folds in the street at 120k miles. I love the 5, but for that price, why not shoot for a used S Class for a few bucks more?

Dude, we've had 2 Mercedes and won't make that mistake again. At least not for now. We had some really bizarre service issues with both cars (both new) and the dealership here in the Bay Area is a bunch of assholes. Plus, the service department is staffed with gaping assholes.

And I, unlike Flanders there, do not appreciate someone else's ass farts in my leather. New moo. It's all about the new moo. Not ass.

Plus, I have a very high standard for how the car was cared for. Most people treat their cars like shit. They're mostly filthy, door-dinged stink bombs. No. I'll pay the extra, unless I know the guy who owned the car.

[baltassoc]

Originally posted by Flanders
Actually BMNA's plant is in Spartanburg, SC along with the BMW Zentrum. http://www.bmwzentrum.com/ (Greer, SC if you want to be 100% correct) Asheville is in NC, not SC.

You're right, of course. I was down there with the in-laws being chauffered around (and kind of drunk most of the weekend), so I am a little vague on the details.

It seemed like no one would shut up about the Germans, though. They weren't saying bad things; quite the opposite. It just never ended.

[Flanders]

2000 BMW M5 BLUE 4 6C Gas 6 B, EW, Lthr, MR 46014 $36000

With pre-owned std maintenance (interestingly, Merc is no longer including std maintenance) probably not as much of a problem since the dealership covers through 36-50k on the odometer. Then again,12-15 k between oil changes still does not quite sit right with me. Plus, you have to get used to the unknown ass factor. However, 36k for an 00 M5, I’ll buy a new drivers seat! : )