General discussion - Mom and Dad Esq.

[viet_mom]

PS - Splurge for the camera that gives you audio, and not just visual. Otherwise, you won't know if your kid is screaming in their crib. Or if she is saying inappropriate things to your kid. Or even yelling.

[Trepidation_Mom]

Originally posted by viet_mom
PS - Splurge for the camera that gives you audio, and not just visual. Otherwise, you won't know if your kid is screaming in their crib. Or if she is saying inappropriate things to your kid. Or even yelling.

But know the laws first - you trigger federal wiretap laws once sound is involved, and most states have far more stringent laws protecting people from audio recording than video.

(As I discovered when a friend found (soundless) naked video of herself on the 'net, obviously filmed by a camera installed in her bathroom by some maintenance person in her building, and there was fuck-all she could do about it.)

[mmm3587]

Originally posted by viet_mom
...Maybe the problem will be fixed with a talk. On the other hand, if you are watching a video showing a lady watching TV as your child screams for 2 hours in their crib upstairs long after their nap time is over, or someone refusing to touch or pick up a crying 1 year old whose hands are reaching out to the Nanny, or a Nanny who sleeps on an armchair for 3 hours as your kid runs rampant, then that's something different....

Is this the stuff that she was doing, or is there something more? Not that any of those things are acceptable; I'm just curious.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Trepidation_Mom
(As I discovered when a friend found (soundless) naked video of herself on the 'net, obviously filmed by a camera installed in her bathroom by some maintenance person in her building, and there was fuck-all she could do about it.)

Was that a normal day for her, or did she a bigger than usual lunch?

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by mmm3587
Is this the stuff that she was doing, or is there something more? Not that any of those things are acceptable; I'm just curious.

IIRC, among other things, the nanny also ate the child's food and then lied about it to VM.

S_A_M

[mmm3587]

Originally posted by Trepidation_Mom
But know the laws first - you trigger federal wiretap laws once sound is involved, and most states have far more stringent laws protecting people from audio recording than video.

(As I discovered when a friend found (soundless) naked video of herself on the 'net, obviously filmed by a camera installed in her bathroom by some maintenance person in her building, and there was fuck-all she could do about it.)

Are there any actual cites on these things? Those are both definitely the opposite of how things should be, in my opinion.

I am skeptical as fuckall that it is illegal to record the normal (i.e. not in the bathroom or the shower or somewhere else with a different kind of expectation of privacy) activities of someone, including sound, in your own home, even if they are your employee or your guest.

Similarly, I am extremely skeptical that there was nothing illegal and nothing that could be done about a naked silent video of someone in her own bathroom taken by a camera illicitly placed by a camera person.

[viet_mom]

Originally posted by mmm3587
Is this the stuff that she was doing, or is there something more? Not that any of those things are acceptable; I'm just curious.

There were a lot of things. As soon as you saw me on the video leave the house, she stuck her head in the seat of an armchair and said some weird prayer where she banged her head against the cushion seat, but hey, the prayer included a request for the Lord to watch over all the drivers including me so what the hell. It was also funny b/c the cushion seat had been saturated with cat pee for quite some time and was still nasty despite my efforts with Odormute© (armchair since peed on so bad it was dragged out onto street corner in middle of night and cat also gone, dragged into all night clinic and sold the farm).

Unfortunately, that was the only humorous part of the video. Essentially, she watched TV programs all day and ate VB's food and ignored and refused to touch VB all day - she would "shoosh" VB out of the way when she bothered the sitter who never left the armchair. She let VB cry in the crib for a long time while she finished watching one of her programs. VB would hold her hands up to her to be held and sitter would ignore her and tell her she was a spoiled child. A few times VB ventured over to attempt to "play" with the sitter, who swatted her away. VB finally gave up and spent all day slumped in a corner of the room weeping, in an unchanged diaper, unfed. A few hours before I was to come home, sitter fell asleep in the chair for several hours. When I watched the video I had to fast forward this part for a while. VB ran rampant during this time. Still, the Sitter still hadn't taken out any toys for VB to play with.

She eventually woke up, saw the clock show I'd be home soon and so she tossed VB some crackers. Then she changed VB and used the broom to clean up the crackers on the rug. Then the video shows me coming home, walking into the living room where both had spent their day. VB rushed to me and jumped in my arms, while the sitter waxed dramatically about the fun-filled day and how well VB had eaten, etc.

The "sound" portion of video/cams had already been tested high up in my state's courts. But I'm not sure I would have cared. You cam in a way the person doesn't know they're being cam'd. If your state says it is illegal then maybe if the sitter is being prosecuted in a criminal court, her attorney tries to have it kept out of evidence. Whatever. At least you know what she did so you could fire her and get your kid out of the situation.

[viet_mom]

Originally posted by mmm3587
Is this the stuff that she was doing, or is there something more? Not that any of those things are acceptable; I'm just curious.

I should also add that my chapstick was next to the radio/cam so I got a nice, big, fat close-up of the sitter using my chapstick. Applied so it touched her big fat tongue. That alone was worth the $500 for the cam. I might still have that chapstick were it not for the cam. God Save The People.

[Trepidation_Mom]

Originally posted by mmm3587
Are there any actual cites on these things? Those are both definitely the opposite of how things should be, in my opinion.

You'd think. The wiretap laws predate widespread video recording and it's just not covered. Cites? I dunno, I learned about it at some CLE thing the local Bar sponsored - ethics credits, you know.

I am skeptical as fuckall that it is illegal to record the normal (i.e. not in the bathroom or the shower or somewhere else with a different kind of expectation of privacy) activities of someone, including sound, in your own home, even if they are your employee or your guest.

You may be right, but one should know the laws to be sure one falls within the applicable exceptions. For instance, I recall that under some state laws you need the consent of all parties to record conversations - even if it is your house. (Who says you don't learn anything useful at CLEs?)

Similarly, I am extremely skeptical that there was nothing illegal and nothing that could be done about a naked silent video of someone in her own bathroom taken by a camera illicitly placed by a camera person.

Well, go figure. She was pretty sure it was a super/custodian/repair guy in her building, and since she gave him access to fix stuff she couldn't claim tresspassing, and the camera ran on a battery (so there wasn't the "theft of electricity" hook that can sometimes be used to get around the fact that, sans sound, filming isn't usually itself illegal).

Something's not illegal just because it is invasive and humilliating and turned to profit by others, and nanny cams exploit one of the loopholes of what hasn't yet been made illegal. (And they are one of the reasons it probably won't be made illegal.)

You only need one party to consent in Texas. I have a recorder on my office phone that isn't used often, but it's there when I need it.

[viet_mom]

Originally posted by TexLex
You only need one party to consent in Texas. I have a recorder on my office phone that isn't used often, but it's there when I need it.

Usual caveats for other people's research but these two sites are handy in listing which states are "one party" consent and which are "all party" consents.

http://www.pimall.com/nais/n.recordlaw.html
http://www.rcfp.org/taping/
(The latter site is great, with hotlinks to each state's law)

The list has the following as the only states with "all party" rules.

California
Connecticut
Delaware
Florida
Illinois
Maryland
Massachusetts
Michigan
Montana
New Hampshire
Pennsylvania
Washington

[viet_mom]

...is in preparation for your overnight guests, opening up your new (delivered November) sleeper sofa and having problems figuring out how to pull out the damn bed and then recoiling in horror when you realize there is nothing in there to pull out. Lesson: check to make sure the sofa is a sleeper WHEN IT IS DELIVERED. I paid the extra few hundred to buy the thing as a sleeper and the guy who sold me the furniture now says the invoice only says "sofa" so bugger off. Is there any profession shadier than the furniture sales business?

Don't answer that.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by viet_mom
...is in preparation for your overnight guests, opening up your new (delivered November) sleeper sofa and having problems figuring out how to pull out the damn bed and then recoiling in horror when you realize there is nothing in there to pull out. Lesson: check to make sure the sofa is a sleeper WHEN IT IS DELIVERED. I paid the extra few hundred to buy the thing as a sleeper and the guy who sold me the furniture now says the invoice only says "sofa" so bugger off. Is there any profession shadier than the furniture sales business?

Don't answer that.

That sucks. The blow-up mattresses you can get at, say, Target are quite comfortable, if you need something immediately and don't have anything.

Originally posted by viet_mom
I paid the extra few hundred to buy the thing as a sleeper and the guy who sold me the furniture now says the invoice only says "sofa" so bugger off.

Bastard. I just this minute finished typing up a Deceptive Trade Practices petition: if you have something like that where you are, a nasty letter might be worth a) getting the right sofa and b) your own amusement.

If you get an inflatable, get a pump for it - preferably a little electric one so your guests do not arrive to find you dead and blue on the floor.

[Atticus Grinch]

Anyone ever taken kids to Vegas? Would you recommend doing it, and what if anything would be fun for an ~4yo? Did you do the drive to the Grand Canyon?