Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch

I agree with this.* That said, I have on several occasions bought drinks for US soldiers, particularly when seeing them in Europe. I'm not sure why, it just feels like the right thing to do.

For different reasons, I always and will forever buy any paramedic a drink (assuming we are in a bar). Those dudes saved my life and made me feel calm and safe when I was bleeding out in the middle of the road.

I go to a family reunion every couple of years and the organizer, one of my cousins, always makes a point of having all the veterans stand up and get acknowledged for their service. This has always bothered me, maybe because I know too much about his politics, because of the implicit denigration of other forms of service. I have a cousin who helps run the volunteer fire department in the town where we do the reunion. One vet there was a doctor in the Army stateside for two years during Vietnam and then spent his career in a state mental hospital -- which was the bigger hardship? I have another cousin who has spent his summers fighting forest fires -- he has surely put his life at risk as much as the organizer who did his tour on a destroyer without anyone ever shooting at him. I don't object to honoring the vets at all, but exalting them while dumping on everything else the government does kinda bugs me.

[taxwonk]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Look, I'm happy to buy 'em drinks all around, but I fly first class now on long flights because I feel like shit if I don't. The damn youngsters can pay their dues in the back the way I did.

I can't remember how long it's been since I've flown first class. Except for a brief period during the trial prep where I was flying back and forth almost weekly, I never traveled enough.

[taxwonk]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

I go to a family reunion every couple of years and the organizer, one of my cousins, always makes a point of having all the veterans stand up and get acknowledged for their service. This has always bothered me, maybe because I know too much about his politics, because of the implicit denigration of other forms of service. I have a cousin who helps run the volunteer fire department in the town where we do the reunion. One vet there was a doctor in the Army stateside for two years during Vietnam and then spent his career in a state mental hospital -- which was the bigger hardship? I have another cousin who has spent his summers fighting forest fires -- he has surely put his life at risk as much as the organizer who did his tour on a destroyer without anyone ever shooting at him. I don't object to honoring the vets at all, but exalting them while dumping on everything else the government does kinda bugs me.

It has nothing to do with the soldiers at all. Think about Spartacus or Lancelot. They were sent out to die. In order to make that palatable, their sacrifice had to be lionized. They had to become heroes so we could deal with the guilt of killing them. When someone starts talking loud and proud about supporting our boys, em's saying "shut the fuck up with your complaining about the war, you shame these soldiers' honor by your dissent."

[Sidd Finch]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

I go to a family reunion every couple of years and the organizer, one of my cousins, always makes a point of having all the veterans stand up and get acknowledged for their service. This has always bothered me, maybe because I know too much about his politics, because of the implicit denigration of other forms of service. I have a cousin who helps run the volunteer fire department in the town where we do the reunion. One vet there was a doctor in the Army stateside for two years during Vietnam and then spent his career in a state mental hospital -- which was the bigger hardship? I have another cousin who has spent his summers fighting forest fires -- he has surely put his life at risk as much as the organizer who did his tour on a destroyer without anyone ever shooting at him. I don't object to honoring the vets at all, but exalting them while dumping on everything else the government does kinda bugs me.

Dude -- I said I buy drinks for paramedics as well as soldiers. How many asses do I need to kiss to make you happy?

[Sidd Finch]

Originally Posted by taxwonk

It has nothing to do with the soldiers at all. Think about Spartacus or Lancelot. They were sent out to die. In order to make that palatable, their sacrifice had to be lionized. They had to become heroes so we could deal with the guilt of killing them. When someone starts talking loud and proud about supporting our boys, em's saying "shut the fuck up with your complaining about the war, you shame these soldiers' honor by your dissent."

Depends who em is. Some of us say we should be supporting our boys by keeping them the fuck out of stupid wars.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch

Dude -- I said I buy drinks for paramedics as well as soldiers. How many asses do I need to kiss to make you happy?

I was in St. Louis a lot a few years back on a lawsuit. I'd get to the airport, buy a ticket for their subway and in and then back a few days later. That cost like $4. I only had $20 it seems every time and the machine gave change in dollar coins. I hate dollar coins and no here seems to even know what they are. So about the fifth trip I was so sick of them that I just wanted to get rid of them. Flying home I had 10 of them left. I was in line at the airport to buy a water. Behind was a young guy in an army outfit. I offered to buy him lunch but he seemed puzzled. I think he was unfamiliar with the concept and thought I wanted to fuck him.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

We've seen all kinds of reasons in our family for joining the military. I think my foster-nephew did it to emulate his foster father. I've had a couple relatives do ROTC, focusing more on the college payments than the after college commitments - at least one of them very explicitly thinking, pre 9/11, that he had little or no chance of deployment and it was a good gig for a couple years. We've had people in the military as doctors, priests, and social workers - all unlikely to get shot at or shoot anyone. At least one in-law was doing it for immigration and naturalization reasons. Two family members have done special forces training - my father, who dropped out of it, and a brother-in-law who started in the SEAL program but was transferred out of it into a leadership track and ended up commanding a nuclear sub (SEALs never end up running things, they're too crazy). Both signed up for it more for the prestige, they were looking for the most elite military role and the fastest advancing they could.

Lived in Singapore for a little while. Made friends with a bunch of armed forces guys who would invade the few spots that played hip hop way the fuck back then whenever their ships would come in. There were quite a few who joined up because they were running from the law or some other awful shit they did, were from a small town and had no shot at going to college (whether they weren't really prepare or couldn't afford it), or wanted to travel and figured joining would be the only way. The only people I met who you could force into the hero role Americans view all military enlistees as occupying, were those who joined because everyone in their family served and it was their turn. And half the time, those guys did it because it was expected of them and they wouldn't dare risk losing their family's respect.

Some very cool people. Some lunatics who fucked, shit and pissed all over every port city they could.

TM

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch

You make good points (but you still need to calm down). Mostly I think this underscores the problem with the term "hero." WTF does it mean? "Pure good guy?"

Using your Confederate soldier analogy -- I could certainly imagine such a story, portraying an individual as brave, selfless, whatever. I assume that the movie Das Boot has at least some likeable or sympathetic characters, and they are fighting for the Nazis.

I don't consider Kyle a "hero." Mostly, I found it an interesting and sad story, and he did get pretty f'd up by the whole thing. If he did anything "heroic", it was trying to help other f'd up vets when he came back, not killing people in Iraq.

We are not in conflict on any of this stuff. I just wanted to point out what I believe to be Taibbi's perspective when he says you kind of fuck things up when you completely remove the larger context in which the viewer should be viewing Kyle's actions. I'm not sure if you noticed, but people aren't that smart. The more you get away from why the Iraq war was pointless and stupid in these movies, and the more you focus on individual stories of American heroism, the more people start to view any American soldier as an automatic hero.

I realize that may be way far past Taibbi's point (and I didn't read the article or see the movie*), but I can see where he's coming from.

TM

*But listen to my opinion, damn it!

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch

Dude -- I said I buy drinks for paramedics as well as soldiers. How many asses do I need to kiss to make you happy?

Just because I'm responding to you doesn't mean I disagree with you. But to answer your question, you should buy drinks for tech lawyers too.

[Gattigap]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Just because I'm responding to you doesn't mean I disagree with you. But to answer your question, you should buy drinks for tech lawyers too.

Oh, like THAT's gonna start happening.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

I was in St. Louis a lot a few years back on a lawsuit. I'd get to the airport, buy a ticket for their subway and in and then back a few days later. That cost like $4. I only had $20 it seems every time and the machine gave change in dollar coins. I hate dollar coins and no here seems to even know what they are. So about the fifth trip I was so sick of them that I just wanted to get rid of them. Flying home I had 10 of them left. I was in line at the airport to buy a water. Behind was a young guy in an army outfit. I offered to buy him lunch but he seemed puzzled. I think he was unfamiliar with the concept and thought I wanted to fuck him.

He was probably wearing a short skirt and deserved that kind of attention from you.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally Posted by Gattigap

Oh, like THAT's gonna start happening.

Oh, please. Pimpin' ain't easy.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Gattigap

Oh, like THAT's gonna start happening.

I'm pretty certain I've stuck him with the bill for an overpriced drink or two along the way. It's all in how you shake the booty.

[Gattigap]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

I'm pretty certain I've stuck him with the bill for an overpriced drink or two along the way. It's all in how you shake the booty.

Interesting. I tried the dine-and-dash approach once, though it didn't work. He chased me down in the street; that fucker's FAST.

Good to know your audience, though. I'll ask Flinty to find which booty-shaking techniques work best.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

The last sentence here (from Josh Marshall) is easily my sentence of the day:

As I said a few days ago, I simply did not think the Obama White House had it in them to refuse any contact with Netanyahu during his visit. I was wrong. This may have something to do with President Obama having a highly limited number of fucks remaining to give this late in his presidency and resorting to a PAYGO approach rather than resorting to deficit spending on fucks he has to give.