Posting Towards Gomorrah

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Uh, because they were.

Let's suppose that they were for a moment. Don't you think that's an odd thing for them to be doing, given that they had no nuclear facilities?

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Could you explain the thinking there?

Are you saying civil war is necessarily a failure? By that logic, the emancipation proclamation was a failure.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Are you saying civil war is necessarily a failure? By that logic, the emancipation proclamation was a failure.

I'd say a civil war in Iraq is a failure. I see little resemblance to the US Civil War.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Are you saying civil war is necessarily a failure? By that logic, the emancipation proclamation was a failure.

I wasn't saying anything, I was asking for an explanation.

I find the assertion that a civil war is necessary for democracy to be a little odd. OK, a lot odd. That doesn't preclude some sort of good outcome somewhere down the road, but I don't think civil war is helpful per se.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
I'd say a civil war in Iraq is a failure.

Why? Absent a perpetual war, presumably there will evantually be a resolution that will offer something superior to the Hussein dictatorship.

It seems the length of the war, and the ultimate result, are far better bases on which to assess the U.S. effort than whether a civil war took place at all.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
t I don't think civil war is helpful per se.

Of course not. Ideally the South would have capitulated at the outset, rather than after four years. But the same could be said about the loser in any war.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Why? Absent a perpetual war, presumably there will evantually be a resolution that will offer something superior to the Hussein dictatorship.

It seems the length of the war, and the ultimate result, are far better bases on which to assess the U.S. effort than whether a civil war took place at all.

How many eggs do you break when you make an omelet? A couple of twelve-packs?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Of course not. Ideally the South would have capitulated at the outset, rather than after four years. But the same could be said about the loser in any war.

Some wars might have gone other ways.

eta: What if Grant had been drinking at Appomattox?

But that's besides sgtclub's point. He seems to think that a civil war was a necessary good.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
How many eggs do you break when you make an omelet? A couple of twelve-packs?

But I make a fuckin' tasty omelet.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Why? Absent a perpetual war, presumably there will evantually be a resolution that will offer something superior to the Hussein dictatorship.

It seems the length of the war, and the ultimate result, are far better bases on which to assess the U.S. effort than whether a civil war took place at all.

I agree with your second paragraph. I don't know what makes you so sure about the first.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
I don't know what makes you so sure about the first.

I can't imagine much worse, other than a perpetual civil war.

Do you think it's a likely outcome that, whether Iraq gets carved up or not, it will end up with a tyrannical dictator again?

[SlaveNoMore]

Tyrone Slothrop
The revelation that Armitage was one of Novak's source does not change the fact that Karl Rove called reporters peddling the same information. Or that a federal prosecutor has enough information to indict Scooter Libby for lying to him to protect the same scheme.

Total unmitigated bullshit

First of all, Rove only confirmed the info when asked about it.

Secondly, as has been established over and over again, not a single crime was committed - other that Libby's perjury. And the perjuy would never had occurred but for Fitzgerald's useless investigation

Thirdly, that Armitage - hardly a Bush/Cheney/Rove guy - leaked the information - is clear and convincing evidence that there never was this coordinated Administration effort that all the Fitzmas idiots on the Left were dying to prove.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
I can't imagine much worse, other than a perpetual civil war.

Do you think it's a likely outcome that, whether Iraq gets carved up or not, it will end up with a tyrannical dictator again?

I think you'll either get a failed state reminiscent of Somalia or a brutal, undemocratic central government like Syria's which uses force liberally (hi Penske!) to maintain its rule and keep the country together.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
I can't imagine much worse, other than a perpetual civil war.

Do you think it's a likely outcome that, whether Iraq gets carved up or not, it will end up with a tyrannical dictator again?

It seems to me that countries in chaos often in up with tyrannical dictators.

And I don't see Iran, Syria, or the Saudis sitting around on the sidelines. Or Turkey, for that matter.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Total unmitigated bullshit

Off my corner, ho.

First of all, Rove only confirmed the info when asked about it.

Please see Larry Johnson's post re what Cheney and others were doing. If you can't find what I'm talking about, use the search function to look for the phrase "shopping around."

Secondly, as has been established over and over again, not a single crime was committed - other that Libby's perjury. And the perjuy would never had occurred but for Fitzgerald's useless investigation.

Needless to say, this has never been "established" anywhere.

It would not be crazy to surmise that Fitzgerald was hoping to flip Libby, and that Libby is resisting this for political reasons.

At any rate, this White House has show us that smearing people for political reasons is not necessary a crime. And if that's where you stand your ground, God bless you.

Thirdly, that Armitage - hardly a Bush/Cheney/Rove guy - leaked the information - is clear and convincing evidence that there never was this coordinated Administration effort that all the Fitzmas idiots on the Left were dying to prove.

That's like saying that the fact that the Houston Texans drafted Mario Williams shows that they're not planning to try to play offense this year. It makes no sense.