I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

A bunch of dumb money would do dumb things after a Trump win, but the market would adjust. ...

And if she wins? Great. The market will fly. Either way, the world does not end.

It's almost like you shouldn't decide your vote based on how markets will react...

And there's opportunity in volatility.

Not for the people who lose their jobs.

The real reason I suspect most of you have erections for Hillary is she's the status quo candidate.

The real reason is that if we're going to make any progress on the issues facing us - including all of the one's you've highlighted today - we need to elect someone who cares about them (or at least pretends to) and not someone who is backed by the party that explicit wants to keep things how they are or make them worse.

Seriously, you say Hillary doesn't mean the things she says so she's no different than the party that says and acts like it is actively harmful to the things you care about.

I mean, let's face it -- nobody here wanted to see Bernie elected because he was a serious Socialist.

I didn't want Bernie to be the nominee because I didn't (and still don't) think he could win and I think he'd be a uniquely ineffective president even if he could (see his record in congress). But if we were picking a leader who could magically implement all of his policies, I'd have to think long and hard about Bernie vs. Hillary.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

It's tedious. All this bullshit about why "empathy" would dictate I vote for a candidate. How insanely naive. Like a choice of politician can be empathetic.

Dude. You think one candidate will cause a recession and the other won't. All else constant (which you're also arguing is the case), a normal human being would pick the non-recession.

You're not, because you think you'll be fine in the recession and don't give a flying fuck about those who it will hurt. That's fucked up.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Electoral math = He's dead. He needs to flip MI, CO, PA, or WI. Good luck there.

Have you seen the results of recent Wisconsin statewide elections? Large swathes of that state are very much his demographic.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Adder

Have you seen the results of recent Wisconsin statewide elections? Large swathes of that state are very much his demographic.

6 points down. He is not getting there from here.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Adder

Dude. You think one candidate will cause a recession and the other won't. All else constant (which you're also arguing is the case), a normal human being would pick the non-recession.

You're not, because you think you'll be fine in the recession and don't give a flying fuck about those who it will hurt. That's fucked up.

We get a recession either way. Trump just speeds it up. And I'm not picking anything. Hillary's going to win, and I'm not voting for Trump.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

6 points down. He is not getting there from here.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo...tein-5974.html

Current Colorado polls, this flips, all else holds, he is the President. (by the way, didn't Colorado somehow split its vote previously?)

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Can you imagine a Republican Congress doing anything constructive about any of these issues in the next decade?

If the presidential campaign seems pointless, it's because there seems to be little hope that the current GOP will do anything other than try to obstruct what Democrats are trying to do. That won't last forever, because the GOP represents a demographically shrinking electorate. They are more frantic and desperate because they know they are losing.

I'd like the issues I cited addressed. But they won't be, under any combination of branches being controlled by either party. The next best thing is gridlock. We get that either way. If Trump wins, the Democrats will become obstructionists and wallop the GOP in the midterms. If Hillary wins, the GOP will remain obstructionist and wallop the Democrats in the midterms.

Even all three branches being GOP won't cause a huge problem. Procedurally, the Democrats have enough votes and devices to keep him in check. He's also a closet Democrat one term President. He'll do none of the stuff TM has hysterically suggested.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo...tein-5974.html

Current Colorado polls, this flips, all else holds, he is the President. (by the way, didn't Colorado somehow split its vote previously?)

I hear ya. But that seems really odd from a state with a big Hispanic population.

But yes, I hear ya.

I still say she wins. Maybe close, but she wins.

ETA: It seems really tenuous. I mean, he's got to get really lucky: http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/03/politi...270-scenarios/

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Not for the people who lose their jobs.

Same criticism I hear from Trump voters. Hillary's a globalist. Jobs will disappear!

The real reason is that if we're going to make any progress on the issues facing us - including all of the one's you've highlighted today - we need to elect someone who cares about them (or at least pretends to) and not someone who is backed by the party that explicit wants to keep things how they are or make them worse.

I get that.

Seriously, you say Hillary doesn't mean the things she says so she's no different than the party that says and acts like it is actively harmful to the things you care about.

Placating something with lip service is worse than being against it. With the former, you never get to the necessary battle of ideas.

I didn't want Bernie to be the nominee because I didn't (and still don't) think he could win and I think he'd be a uniquely ineffective president even if he could (see his record in congress). But if we were picking a leader who could magically implement all of his policies, I'd have to think long and hard about Bernie vs. Hillary.

That's a very honorable position. And one I've heard from very few people.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

How could anyone possibly be this full of shit?

You mentioned there are checks on Trump taking us to war. There are not. There are checks on him declaring war. He already promised to blow people up who were giving the finger to our ships in the Middle East. He's already mentioned killing the families of those he deems terrorists. If you think this man-baby wouldn't deploy troops over the stupidest, petty shit, I imagine you haven't been paying attention to anything other than your pretend cocktail parties where some dumbass says some stupid shit that you repeat here as if that's the current sentiment among people in a position to attend cocktail parties. If you don't have empathy for those put in harm's way for the dumbest of reasons, I can't help you.

You talk about Trump like he's the same as Hillary on any social issue. He's not. And if we wins, that would mean the Republicans held the House and the Senate. He would appoint the next Supreme Court Justice and maybe even three. You clearly don't give a fuck about the progress gay people and minorities have made in this country because that shit doesn't affect you personally. And if you don't think Trump would sit back and rubber stamp the most vicious religious "freedom" type laws, I can't help you. If you think the fact that the teeth of the VRA being removed hasn't affected the ability to vote for the people for whom you clearly have no empathy, I can't help you.

The fact that you think voting is solely a selfish act and project that bullshit on me means that I can't help you. Voting for the most powerful person in the world who has the ability to send people to give their lives and who can affect the rights of millions of people in a very real way is not some topic I can step back from and laugh about how none of this shit will affect me because I make money. That is a stupid, selfish, ridiculous, childish, evil approach to any fucking election.

And the fact that you spend as much time talking about how silly the whole thing is from your forced "outsider" position from which you have some special perspective on the pointlessness of all these silly political games and smugly condescend to those of us who actually care about issues that may or may not directly affect us shows to everyone on this board how full of shit you are. And that is an amazing feat because we already knew that you are mostly fucking full of shit.

So, participate in voting or don't. Keep posting about how nothing will happen of note no matter who wins. No one cares. We all know it's pure bullshit.

TM

No one except, apparently, you. That's a lot of ink spilled to rebut obvious "bullshit."

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan

Yep, no one is addressing the serious issues.

Here is what naive, simple-minded empaths like you fail to understand. Yes, it is technically true that he said that nobody is "addressing" certain specific issues. And yes, you and GGG both pointed out that she is, in fact, addressing those exact issues, at least in as much of a way as a candidate can "address" an issue, which is to discuss what her policies would be with respect to those issues if elected. But the nuance that you have missed, most likely because it is being drowned out by the bleating of your horribly dull moralizing, is that when Sebastian said that nobody is addressing these issues, he only actually meant that to the extent that nobody was, in fact, addressing them. If it turns out that, as you pointed out, somebody was and is addressing them, then what Sebastian truly meant is something different. He actually meant that nobody is sincerely addressing these issues. I agree that this is not what his words technically said if you just read them there on the computer screen without any hint of imagination or whimsy, shackled to the literal meaning of his words like some tedious preacher. But everything is just words. Empty promises by hollow buffoons controlled by the cynical elite puppet-master class or propped up by the ignorant fervor of the uneducated swarming masses. If you cannot grasp this basic mostly-truth, that is on you, not him. So get off your high horse, and hide your soap box, because you are going to need it for fuel to cook your rabbit meat when the recession starts. JK!!!! We're recession-proof! Which makes your prattling on and on about empathy all the more inexplicable. I hope we're done here.

[Not Bob]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

Here is what naive, simple-minded empaths like you fail to understand. Yes, it is technically true that he said that nobody is "addressing" certain specific issues. And yes, you and GGG both pointed out that she is, in fact, addressing those exact issues, at least in as much of a way as a candidate can "address" an issue, which is to discuss what her policies would be with respect to those issues if elected. But the nuance that you have missed, most likely because it is being drowned out by the bleating of your horribly dull moralizing, is that when Sebastian said that nobody is addressing these issues, he only actually meant that to the extent that nobody was, in fact, addressing them. If it turns out that, as you pointed out, somebody was and is addressing them, then what Sebastian truly meant is something different. He actually meant that nobody is sincerely addressing these issues. I agree that this is not what his words technically said if you just read them there on the computer screen without any hint of imagination or whimsy, shackled to the literal meaning of his words like some tedious preacher. But everything is just words. Empty promises by hollow buffoons controlled by the cynical elite puppet-master class or propped up by the ignorant fervor of the uneducated swarming masses. If you cannot grasp this basic mostly-truth, that is on you, not him. So get off your high horse, and hide your soap box, because you are going to need it for fuel to cook your rabbit meat when the recession starts. JK!!!! We're recession-proof! Which makes your prattling on and on about empathy all the more inexplicable. I hope we're done here.

"Sebby Translation Flower" is almost as good as "Not Bob's Musical Education Professor Flower."

Anyway, I am with Hank on the closeness of the race (which is why I offered to switch votes with Sebby a couple of weeks ago).

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

No one except, apparently, you. That's a lot of ink spilled to rebut obvious "bullshit."

Im not sure you understand that every response you've received today translates to: Sebby, you're full of shit.

And I've spilled much less ink pointing out your bullshit than you've spent telling everyone how little you care.

TM

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Same criticism I hear from Trump voters. Hillary's a globalist. Jobs will disappear!

Please tell me you can tell the difference between a claim that a recession will mean job losses and the claim that trade will cause job losses. You're being willfully obtuse (and changing your tune frequently).

Placating something with lip service is worse than being against it.

No, it's not. A presidential candidate talking about an issue is how progress is made. Even if that doesn't mean it gets immediately to the front burner, it's getting closer.

With the former, you never get to the necessary battle of ideas.

Tell me how both parties being against, say, prison reform, generates a "battle of ideas?"

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Even all three branches being GOP won't cause a huge problem. Procedurally, the Democrats have enough votes and devices to keep him in check.

This is totally wrong. If the House and the Senate go GOP and you have a GOP President, Mitch McConnell will get rid of cloture votes and filibusters. 50 votes will be what it takes to get things passed, and Pence will be casting the tiebreaking vote. I just had lunch with a lawyer who was talking about all the laws that will change if this happens, and all the opportunities it will create for his clients.