General discussion - Mom and Dad Esq.

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
I am also preternaturally perky because someone just gave me absolute veto power over outside counsel. Heh.

I sold my SUV. Can NB&A participate in the beauty contest, please?

(and, on point, what about a Subaru?)

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Just put the youngest ones back there; you aren't as attached to them b/c they haven't been around as long. Or use it as the reserve car -- have the minivan as the primary kid car, and the station wagon as the car used by whatever parent isn't primarily responsible for the kids that day.

Having an SUV/Minivan and a wagon is no solution. Except if you have Ty's wife and you're stuck driving the odyssey.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by Not Bob
(and, on point, what about a Subaru?)

My SIL has an Outback. Surprisingly big on the outside (bulges below the waterline), deceptively small on the inside. The Forester seems to get bigger with each generation, and it's no longer fugly, thank God. YMMV. Ha!

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
It still seems like it would be difficult to have a two-career family with only one child-friendly car. Perhaps every couple (he knows) in SF is a one-career family; the other spouse either doesn't work or has a job with limited hours.

I don't hang out with the crowd that can afford nannies --- I can think of only one close friend who does, and they have only one kid (at the moment). In fairness, while it remains true that I can't think of a single two minivan or two SUV family, all of the people in my mental inventory with 3 or more kids of booster/carseat age (thereby presenting this problem) have scaled back on one of their careers for non-car-size-related reasons.

Three kids not in carseats can fit in the backseat of a Prius.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by OscarCrease
OscarCrease is actually a little sorry he asked.

You might not have realized that on any board on which Hank, Fringey, Burger and I are all posting, eventually someone is going to get called a dumbfuck. The trick is not to let it be you.

I think the reference to the 70's isn't the most helpful although pleasantly nostalgic.

Maybe not, but I considered the point worth making that what is now considered a necessity was within recent memory an extravagance, and in each case in which that's true we should constantly reconsider whether it's really a necessity. No one on this board is a slave to their circumstances.*

*An exception would be people who are literally slaves.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Having an SUV/Minivan and a wagon is no solution. Except if you have Ty's wife and you're stuck driving the odyssey.

That would be a VW Passat wagon, which we love. But I'm unclear whether we could fit three car seats across the back. (Here in California, Gov. Arnold will come kick you ass if you put a kid in a car without a carseat unless the kid has entered high school.) Are there any cars that fit three car seats across a seat, or do you have to go for one of the options that gives you two rows of passenger seating?

Apropos of nothing at all, the NFL draft is that time of year when all of the teams in the league visit Lake Wobegone -- they all get better! But by the time the regular season starts, they'll only win half their games, more or less.

Originally posted by the Grinch-like One
Three kids not in carseats can fit in the backseat of a Prius.

Hell, they'll also fit in one of those portable dog kennels, and you have a better chance that way of making sure that CHP doesn't see them out of their carseats.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
You might not have realized that on any board on which Hank, Fringey, Burger and I are all posting, eventually someone is going to get called a dumbfuck. The trick is not to let it be you.

For "be" read "get to."

Seriously, what age do kids get to be out of car seats? Or is it a height?

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by pony_trekker
That was Chevys made pre 1990, which are still running like clockwork today. Post 1990 Chevys start to go on life support at 60k and die two years after that.

We traded our 1995 in at 227,000 miles. I had to replace the serpentine belt at 160,000 and the brakes at 150,000. Other than that, all I had done was changing the oil.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by ltl/fb

Seriously, what age do kids get to be out of car seats? Or is it a height?

Depends on the state. In DC it's 8 y.o., but there's some exception for super-fats. I wouldn't want my kids to hit that exception.

[tmdiva]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop Are there any cars that fit three car seats across a seat, or do you have to go for one of the options that gives you two rows of passenger seating?

From my (albeit limited) experience piling kids in cars for preschool field trips, it depends on the car seat, but it is often possible to fit three across the back row of a minivan. I have also installed three car seats across the back seat of my mom's Infiniti, and I have probably done it (though I'm not 100% sure--it would have been a short-term thing, on a family vacation) in my Outback.

And speaking of my Outback, we haven't had any complaints about its size. We've been able to fit an insane amount of stuff in it, including an overstuffed rocking chair (Deserva rocker from Restoration Hardware--same as one of the rockers from Pottery Barn kids) and a large chest of drawers (not at the same time), without putting the back seat down. We've also taken 200-mile car trips with four adults and one toddler with no ill effects (this was easier when he was still in the Roundabout, which sits higher and allows a little more butt space for the grownups). However, when we start having two car seats this summer, any third person sitting in the back seat will probably have to be really slim to fit--won't know for sure until we try.

This is not the latest model (ours is a 2000), and I don't know if the current one is appreciably smaller.

tm

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Seriously, what age do kids get to be out of car seats? Or is it a height?

You're in a rear-facing car seat until you're 12 months AND 20 lbs. Then you're in a forward-facing car seat with its own restraint system until you're about 30 lbs. or so, at which point you can safely go into a booster seat that uses the car's seatbelts IF there are shoulder harnesses.

In California, you stay in a booster seat until you're 6 years old or 60 lbs., and you're not allowed to use a belt-positioning clip. Some of the booster seats are just essentially foam phone books that lift the kid into the proper position so it won't be strangled by the shoulder harness.

Eventually we'll all be wearing helmets.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch


Eventually we'll all be wearing helmets.

vote for Nader!

http://www.iihs.org/safety_facts/sta.../restrain2.htm

[dtb]

Originally posted by OscarCrease
OscarCrease is actually a little sorry he asked.

Seriously though:

(1) I think the reference to the 70's isn't the most helpful although pleasantly nostalgic. In fact, one of my fondest memories is my friend's alcoholic dad who used to drive us to the museum (hmm, why was he always home during the day) in his Pinto that had a hole in the floor. We (4-5 neighborhood kids) would gather around the hole in the way back (the part I think that bursts into flame if you are rear-ended) and drop things onto the freeway. Good Times. Unfortunately, this whole car seat business got in the way...

(2) I tend to agree with Atticus on the point that you don't necessarily need two big ass cars. While I do in fact do drop off, only our oldest goes to school so I don't need to fit all three in the car simultaneously on a regular basis. My wife is concerned about the emergency scenario where her car is in the shop/disabled/whatever and we can't fit everyone into car #2. I don't necessarily agree that it makes much sense, but that's neither here nor there. FWIW I didn't take the post as a gender polemic. I would certainly prefer a smaller second car but 2 Britax Roudabouts + a Britax Marathon = the need for a very wide middle row and/or a third row.

In any case, I was just wondering what fellow parents have found in the non-van, non super size SUV category that they like. We shared 1 modest sized SUV (although at the time I think it was considered "full size") until child #2. Inherited the aforementioned giant SUV from a family member. Traded in SUV #1 for the minivan upon birth of child #3 because it was the older and less reliable of the two.

Now SUV #2 is feeling a little long in the tooth (and the repair bills are getting more frequent and of greater magnitude) so I foolishly, and perhaps regrettably, posted my inquiry.

So, to recap, after my last post about Bay Area housing prices I was told "only an asshat would buy in the Bay Area." After this latest post I'm now "that gas guzzling freak who drives two giant cars."

I will now withdraw from the board and go slit my wrists.

This was a funny post. I like you. This is causation, not correlation.

Now, marching on to my point:

We have a Volvo "SUV" (it's not really an SUV -- more like a beefy station wagon, but it's awesome). On our last vacation (a visit to the in-laws, so not technically a vacation), we drove my f-i-l's Mercedes SUV around town, and we far prefer the Volvo to the Mercedes (I don't remember the number or whatever -- but I think there's only the one). The Volvo handles better, the engine was smoother (sorry, I'm not real facile with car-speak), and it felt more solid.

It would fit three car seats across, although we only use two. If your third child (or, most probably, the first one) is the right size, you can put him/her in the "built in" car seat in the middle.

The way-back is pretty big (we tote a big dog crate most of the time -- usually filled with 90 lbs. of dog), but when the third row of seats is up, the way back gets rather small -- but you could still jam some suitcases or other sundries back there (but not a dog crate that can hold 90 lbs. of dog).

Originally posted by tmdiva
From my (albeit limited) experience piling kids in cars for preschool field trips, it depends on the car seat, but it is often possible to fit three across the back row of a minivan. I have also installed three car seats across the back seat of my mom's Infiniti, and I have probably done it (though I'm not 100% sure--it would have been a short-term thing, on a family vacation) in my Outback.

[snip]

tm

Having just put an infant car seat in the back center of a '99 Passat sedan, I'd think that two child seats would have to be in outboard stations, and three child seats would be damn neat impossible to get in, due to wrangling with that damn clip thing on the belt. I'd think it impossible to install two such seats in the cetner and outboard stations where the seat belt buckles are adjacent. If your car has LATCH anchors, it might be easier (and possible); and it might be possible with a boster seat in the outboard seat where the buckles meet.

For my future reference, must kids in booster seats still be in the back (NY)? If one is old enough for a booster, just stick them in front.

-epF

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Ex_post_Festo
Having just put an infant car seat in the back center of a '99 Passat sedan, I'd think that two child seats would have to be in outboard stations, and three child seats would be damn neat impossible to get in, due to wrangling with that damn clip thing on the belt. I'd think it impossible to install two such seats in the cetner and outboard stations where the seat belt buckles are adjacent. If your car has LATCH anchors, it might be easier (and possible); and it might be possible with a boster seat in the outboard seat where the buckles meet.

For my future reference, must kids in booster seats still be in the back (NY)? If one is old enough for a booster, just stick them in front.

-epF

Few cars have the latch anchors in the center, which is completely stupid, but that's the way it is when you have to comply with federal regulations. (Manufacturers of hearses only recently got an exemption from teh requirements for Latch in the rear seat.

Generally kids have to be in the back seat for quite some time (past boosters), because airbags would smash 'em up real good in front.