Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.

[BackInTheNewYorkGroove]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

time for me to go. one cannot even ask a simple question, now my daughter is lazy, or dumb.

I certainly didn't mean to suggest that your daughter was lazy or stupid in my reply to you. There are a lot of moving parts in the various policies available on the exchange. I actually found the explanations given by the carriers on each of their websites easier to use than the explanations/summaries on the exchange site for comparison of things like copays and network versus non network charges.

But I'm just the third most popular dude in a four dude rock band, so what do I know.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by BackInTheNewYorkGroove

I certainly didn't mean to suggest that your daughter was lazy or stupid in my reply to you. There are a lot of moving parts in the various policies available on the exchange. I actually found the explanations given by the carriers on each of their websites easier to use than the explanations/summaries on the exchange site for comparison of things like copays and network versus non network charges.

But I'm just the third most popular dude in a four dude rock band, so what do I know.

I wasn't replying to you, I was replying to sidd's preceeding post. I appreciate her advice, and the point you make is a great one. If you provide the average poor person the ability to surf a gazillion optrions you are not doing them a favor. It's the same result as to when you get to law school and learn all these consumer protection laws that are intended to help the poor and are mostly of benefit to the well off, just due to lack of knowledge by the poor.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

people who had insurance have worse now, as I predicted.

I do not think this is true. Some people may have it worse now. Maybe many. But this is a huge undertaking and there will be growing pains until the new system is settled. Given the benefits of healthcare access and the prohibition against excluding people, the drawbacks (which, compared to the healthcare system we had before) are worth dealing with.

The solution isn't to throw it out. The solution is to improve it as we see what the problems are.

TM

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan

if worse comes to worse

Legit question: Is it "worse come to worse" or "worse comes to worst?" I've always said it the way you say it. But within the last 10 years have heard it the second way more and more frequently and it seems to make sense. Anyone?

TM

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

time for me to go. one cannot even ask a simple question, now my daughter is lazy, or dumb.

Sidd said, "it's easier to find the extra money and bitch about it than it is to figure out how to deal with the system." I'm sure that's true, and it's no reflection on your daughter. One way to make money in the insurance business is to be smarter about which risks you take on. That's hard. Another is to make it difficult for insureds to make claims. That's easier. So every insurer has a big incentive to make it difficult for people with meritorious claims to get their money. Or for doctors to get paid, for that matter. That's the business they're in. This was true before HCR, and it will be true after HCR, and it will be true if we ever get to single-payer, except that then the insurer will be the government, which will have a somewhat different set of incentives -- though not always better, as those familiar with the VA can attest.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

So Chapel Hill - is it a terrorist attack, hate crime, another plain-vanilla shooting in America, or just a a parking dispute? Or does no one care?

So far, sounds like at least three of the above.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

again, I am only using my child's experience to ask how we helped a truly poor family, which I thought was the point.

It seems to me, the only answer that will satisfy you is, "Hank, you were right about Obamacare. It should never have passed." Because you seem to be ignoring lots of thoughtful reponses.

TM

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

It seems to me, the only answer that will satisfy you is, "Hank, you were right about Obamacare. It should never have passed." Because you seem to be ignoring lots of thoughtful reponses.

TM

I don't think that is what I'm looking for, not on this point. I truly am wondering if a poor family would be hit with the deductible, because then I do not see how they were helped. if they had no money to pay for an office visit before ACA, how do they now? and some of the answers about knowing the correct back doors for getting stuff covered would likely be beyond the knowledge of that same presumedly (or often) poorly educated parent(s), don't you think?

I thought we were providing coverage to the poor, but I'm just shocked that we haven't really (unless I'm missing something?).

[taxwonk]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

Legit question: Is it "worse come to worse" or "worse comes to worst?" I've always said it the way you say it. But within the last 10 years have heard it the second way more and more frequently and it seems to make sense. Anyone?

TM

I've always gone with the latter.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

I don't think that is what I'm looking for, not on this point. I truly am wondering if a poor family would be hit with the deductible, because then I do not see how they were helped. if they had no money to pay for an office visit before ACA, how do they now? and some of the answers about knowing the correct back doors for getting stuff covered would likely be beyond the knowledge of that same presumedly (or often) poorly educated parent(s), don't you think?

I thought we were providing coverage to the poor, but I'm just shocked that we haven't really (unless I'm missing something?).

The biggest programs within ACA oriented toward helping the poor within Obamacare were expansion of Medicaid and CHiP and provision of subsidized insurance policies.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

I don't think that is what I'm looking for, not on this point. I truly am wondering if a poor family would be hit with the deductible, because then I do not see how they were helped. if they had no money to pay for an office visit before ACA, how do they now? and some of the answers about knowing the correct back doors for getting stuff covered would likely be beyond the knowledge of that same presumedly (or often) poorly educated parent(s), don't you think?

I thought we were providing coverage to the poor, but I'm just shocked that we haven't really (unless I'm missing something?).

I think you're missing something, but I simply do not have the energy to wade through the choices one would have (whether poor or not) if one were seeking insurance under Obamacare. I find it highly unlikely that the only options for the poor require a $3,000 deductible. Why don't you sit down with your daughter and help her go through all her options and then report back on all the problems?

To be fair, it's probably a complicated system to navigate one's way through. Hell, the 2 or 3 options my wife and I are presented with through our employers each year are no picnic to figure out either and I've been wading through this shit for years. That said, when it comes to these decisions, poor people tend to figure out what the best option is--especially for important shit like this. (Not all of course.) But if you want to figure out just how invested poor people become and how they educate themselves, go to a community board meeting in the poorest neighborhood in any city when an announcement has been made that a certain percentage of students in that neighborhood are eligible to attend an excellent school in another. Best believe the complex application process has been mastered by those parents and the questions being asked are sophisticated.

It may be that your daughter either (i) signed up for whatever was easiest because she knows you'll always be there to help or (ii) chose a high deductible plan because she wants to spend as little as possible each month and she knows you'll cover her if she needs to hit that $3,000 deductible all at once. Hell, there could be any number of reasons.

I just don't understand why you cherry pick what you determine to be negative responses from all the posts answering your questions. It's like you enjoy being wounded or feeling like you're going up against everyone.

TM

[Adder]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

Legit question: Is it "worse come to worse" or "worse comes to worst?" I've always said it the way you say it. But within the last 10 years have heard it the second way more and more frequently and it seems to make sense. Anyone?

TM

LMGTFY

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

That said, when it comes to these decisions, poor people tend to figure out what the best option is--especially for important shit like this. (Not all of course.) But if you want to figure out just how invested poor people become and how they educate themselves, go to a community board meeting in the poorest neighborhood in any city when an announcement has been made that a certain percentage of students in that neighborhood are eligible to attend an excellent school in another. Best believe the complex application process has been mastered by those parents and the questions being asked are sophisticated.
TM

I know there is a decent percentage of poor people that know their options and wait in line and fight to get the best. I'm not worried about them. Remember agreeing that it sucks when motivated parents get their kids out of poor schools but it destroys things for those who are left? The ones who are not the people who get out, the 50% of kids in Detroit who drop out of HS, we are not talking about motivated/educated people making wise decisions. I guess I would have thought it would have been more idiot proof.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

I don't think that is what I'm looking for, not on this point. I truly am wondering if a poor family would be hit with the deductible, because then I do not see how they were helped.

The answer is it depends on what plan they have and what assistance they qualify for. As RT has also explained, it depends also on what type of treatment they are seeking and in what context.

We've helped them if nothing else because the answer is no longer "they have to pay out of pocket or they don't get it."

ETA: Oh, yeah, and we've also helped them in that if they are paying out of pocket, they are doing so at plan prices instead of uninsured prices.

And as everyone has pointed out to you, we've helped them if they have more catastrophic needs.

We've also helped your daughter by delaying her need to figure this out for herself until now.

and some of the answers about knowing the correct back doors for getting stuff covered would likely be beyond the knowledge of that same presumedly (or often) poorly educated parent(s), don't you think?

Is your daughter poorly educated?

One thing to keep in mind is that the "poor" may be as likely to be young or elderly or recently divorced as to be poorly educated or otherwise permanent members of the underclass.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Adder

LMGTFY

HeLpful.

TM